[Qgis-developer] [Qgis-user] A discussion: is qgis still affordable in Europe if it violate the Inspire directive ?

[Andrea Peri]

No, you can esperiment new functionality .

Simply you cannot put them in a standard response.
The right solution is what say Steafn in ticket.

QGIS has a request
QGISPropterySettings.

The new powerful but incompatible
features put them in it.
Don't abuse of standard responses.
.

Also:
You don't undestand.
I don't spaek the agency EU.
The inspire directive say:

that the europan menbers italy, france, deutch, and so on...
must recepit the directive them and all their sub agency national and local.

The directive don't say

fund to put a qgis to be compiant.

The drective say
use only compliant and interoperability wms product .

The EU put no money for this.
Every menber can use it want .
Commercial or Open product is indifferent.
The imprtant is that it is interoperability.

The Geoserver is interoperabilyt
The Mapserver is interoperability.

Why A public administration should choose QGIS-server ?
It mean lost fund when there is some one more and more copliant with
Inspire.
What is the motivation to spend public resource to have a a QGIS-server
comliant.

I guess this should be interest of who sell service on QGIS to have a qgis
compliant otherwise it has not a market in the public administrations.

Or better again.
Why there is a GetPrint and GetStyle s tags ?

In the response:

the more easy solution is remove these two tags.

I do it in few minutes and can give the patch at we ask me.

So why there is this two tags ?

They are put from someone. This someone has break the qgis wms
compatibility.
SO AFAIK should be it to fund for repair what it break.

Regards,

Andrea.



2014-06-07 21:35 GMT+02:00 Alex Mandel <tech_dev at wildintellect.com>:

> I understand the issue now. In order to be WMS 1.3 complaint you can
> only use what's in the spec.
>
> Looking at an analogy with html specs I find this limitation appalling
> short-sighted. It means there can be no innovation testing new features
> with the spec unless you manage to get it into the future spec. I find
> it hard to comprehend that clients don't just skip tags that fail to
> match a known tag. In html land its very common for some browsers to
> know some non-standard tags, which are new features in testing to be
> proposed or reworked into future standards. IE's policy of only adhering
> to the spec and including no experimental tag support has been seen be
> web designers as discouraging to any change. Why, because their is no
> way to publicly test new ideas.
>
> So from the QGIS side, in order to comply we would need to reply with
> only allowed tags if a user requests WMS=1.3.0, we can reply with more
> stuff like GetPrint if they don't specify that version. Or perhaps we
> have to invent a 1.3.0+ variant specifically for when a user knows it's
> QGIS server.
>
> Anyone more familiar with WMS that can shed more light on the best way
> to work around this issue and have both compliance and the ability to
> add extra features that have no standard equivalent yet.
>
> My point still stands, that EU agencies with this concern should be
> funding compliance efforts, not removing funding for lack of compliance.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> On 06/07/2014 12:23 PM, Andrea Peri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I need to be more clear.
> > My english is tremendous.
> > :)
> >
> > The Interoperability mean to have a small set of operation euals on EVERY
> > Server WMS.
> >
> > Equals mena same reqeust , same response.
> >
> > So when a Cleit WMS send a Request of GetCapabilities, The response
> should
> > be the same from QGIS-server or from GeoServer or From Mapserver.
> >
> > The same response mean that every product use the same dialect the same
> > tags and so on.
> >
> >
> > The XSD OGC is the dictionary that every wms client and server should use
> > to know the right language and tags.
> >
> > When the QGIS_Server response to a request GetCapbility with an XML that
> > contains the GetPrint tags.
> > The client wms say "hey what is this ? It is not in the XSD OGC. This
> mean
> > your response is wrong."
> >
> > Of course there are some client wms that don0t do a validation of
> response,
> > they HOPE that the response will be exactly as they exected.
> > If this is not true. They go in crash or other bad situation.
> >
> > Again the resence of a Tag not compliant with XSD OGC will create
> > incompatibility.
> >
> > Think to a client that will parse the xml response and say:
> >
> > ok the GetLegendGraphics tag is passed now there is "this well know tag".
> >
> > Instead arrive a GetPrint tags.
> >
> > The client wms become crazy.
> >
> > Of course QGIS will understand it.
> > But this is because you (qgis group) manage it to work.
> >
> > But other clients don't know that tag and so they are not able to extract
> > all the information from Capabilities response.
> > This is a bad practice also because create artiiciosally an
> incopatibility
> > with other products.
> > Instead Inspire ask for INteroperability from every product.
> >
> > Interoperability don't mean use all the same unique product. (This is the
> > microsoft philosophy)
> > Interoperability mean All the product must use the same little set of
> > command and the response at these command should be compatible
> > (interoperable) between all of them
> >
> > Actulally this is not true for the response xml of qgis-server at a
> > getcapability request.
> >
> > Hope to be better explain, now.
> >
> > Andrea.
> >
> >
> > 2014-06-07 20:49 GMT+02:00 Andrea Peri <aperi2007 at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Hi Alex,
> >>
> >> The question is not the print capability.
> >>
> >> The question is to LOST THE INTEROPERABILITY
> >>
> >> If qgis response an xml that is not OGC complaint it is not
> interoperable
> >> with other product.
> >>
> >> As example:
> >>
> >> if an public Administration will eed to do a cascading wms with the
> server
> >> wms of another public administration.
> >> The server before of all call for a GetCapability.
> >>
> >> If the response has a tag proprietary. If fail.
> >> This need Not Interoperable.
> >>
> >> I dont say do not do a getprint.
> >>
> >> I say remove tha tag GetPrint from the GetCapabilities response.
> >> It is not a OGC tag and so that response is not interoperable as
> requested
> >> from Inspire specification.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-06-07 20:36 GMT+02:00 Alex Mandel <tech_dev at wildintellect.com>:
> >>
> >> On 06/07/2014 11:19 AM, Andrea Peri wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> AFAIK the qgis server is not complaint with Inspire.
> >>>>
> >>>> This beacausethe Response to GetCapabilities is not responding to the
> >>>> requisite that the OGC will require for it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Originally the qgis was simply generate an incompatible response for
> the
> >>>> XSD of OGC.
> >>>>
> >>>> The response is ncompatible for thre thinks:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) the GetCapabilities is in the wrong namespace.
> >>>> This is a silly question anc could be easily resolved.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2)
> >>>> The presence of the GetStyle that is dismissed from OGC wms 1.3.0.
> >>>> Please notice that the Inspire require the WMS 1.3.0 .
> >>>> To resolve this the QGIS groups has copied the XSD of OGC and modifica
> >>> it
> >>>> to redirect to a different XSD not in the OGC site.
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) The presence of a Proprietary tag inserted without any reference to
> >>> any
> >>>> standard.
> >>>> The GetPrint.
> >>>> This is not present in any other product.
> >>>>
> >>>> My question is for any person of a Public Administration that plan or
> >>> are
> >>>> funding QGIS.
> >>>>
> >>>> In Europe the Inspire directive will ask to promove the
> >>> Interoperability.
> >>>>
> >>>> The interoperability strategy ask that every produc that allow the
> >>> inspire
> >>>> directive will speak the same language using the same tags and
> >>>> functionality.
> >>>>
> >>>> The QGIS solution to add a proprietary tag and to write a own
> different
> >>> xsd
> >>>> that overlap the standard OGC xsd will create the presuppost (AFAIK)
> to
> >>>> vilate the Inspire directive.
> >>>>
> >>>> If this is true A Public Administration should not use the QGIS.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a realproblem for us that invest many fund on qgis.
> >>>>
> >>>> So I like toknow the opinion of other public administration.
> >>>>
> >>>> Before still fund a product that seem to violate the Inspire directive
> >>>> principles.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thx,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> To me the question is flipped. What needs to be funded, probably by EU
> >>> agencies to ensure INSPIRE compliance of QGIS Server?
> >>> It looks like you've put together the list of what needs to be fixed,
> so
> >>> the target should be easier. I am little puzzled about not allowing for
> >>> extra functions that are not in the standard. Unless the WMS has a
> print
> >>> standard an extra print add-on doesn't break any expectations. Who
> >>> knows, maybe that should be submitted as an extension to WMS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Note, this should have no effect on funding and usage of QGIS desktop.
> >>> Maybe Paolo has good numbers on if EU agencies are funding Server vs
> >>> Desktop features.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>


-- 
-----------------
Andrea Peri
. . . . . . . . .
qwerty àèìòù
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