[QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-psc] Theoretical discussion: A QGIS paid plugin marketplace? (was: sponsored plugin)

Wed Feb 7 10:26:46 PST 2024

I want to say that I would like to see developers being fully supported for
their work on QGIS. As we know there are many ways to achieve this and paid
plugins is one potentially viable and useful way. I have seen the Blender
Marketplace mentioned a couple of times in this thread and I feel like it
is important to point out that it is not in any way associated with the
Blender Foundation or internally linked to the software. It is owned and
managed by a for profit company CG Cookie. Blender does have quite a few
add-ons that are included in the program but these are not allowed to be
paid add-ons or even link to paid services or other paid add-ons. I have
purchased add-ons from the Blender Marketplace and it works well and allows
for easy downloading of updates etc. Other add-on developers use Gum Road
for paid add-ons or Github for free add-ons. The Blender Marketplace has a
function for a portion of the purchase price to be donated to the Blender
Foundation to support Blender. Like QGIS the add-ons are required to be
under the same licence as Blender and are therefore opensource. As far as I
can tell the desire of the developer to have the plugin be a paid plugin is
respected by the community but does allow for the option of a hard fork if
circumstances require that.
Thanks
-Bas

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 4:57 PM Tim Sutton via QGIS-Developer <
qgis-developer at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:

> Hi Nyall and other commenters on the thread
>
> Personally I think it makes a lot of sense to allow payment for plugins
> via the official QGIS plugin repo. A couple of (maybe contentious) ideas:
>
> * can we put an Apple-like commission split so that QGIS.org takes 30% of
> money coming from it? That will let us fund Lova into the long term and
> other eventual team members to be paid to maintain the plugin
> infrastructure. That will enable dudes like me who do backend work
> maintaining the plugins services unpaid and unseen can fade into the sunset
> and professional staff can take over the duty of keeping the plugins
> platform going.
> * Having a commission will also cover the cost of doing the accounting,
> keeping track of who is owed what from their plugin sales, accounting for
> everything, bank fees and what-not.
> * We need to make it clear that QGIS does not offer any guarantees for
> plugins sold (or downloaded for free for that matter) from the plugin repo
> * It would be great to also invest into other long standing issues like
> having plugin reviewers (or a clever AI scanner thingy) to make sure
> plugins play nice on people's computers
>
> Personally I would also like to have a 'hard opt in' for the plugin
> installer shipped in QGIS. The first time you use it, you would need to
> acknowledge that the plugins you get from the store may vary in quality and
> their security from awesome to downright dangerous. If you do not agree
> then the plugin manager link to the plugins repo essentially gets disabled
> and you need to hand install plugins using the 'from a zip file' tab in the
> plugin manager.
>
> Probably more contentious would be asking those orgs fronting their
> commercial services with a free plugin to give us (QGIS.org) a commission
> too for the upstream services they sell, but I guess that would be a) hard
> to enforce and b) bring out the complaints big time :-P
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 9:08 AM Alexandre Neto via QGIS-Developer <
> qgis-developer at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>
>> I would say, why not?
>>
>> Many other open source projects have opted by having "market places" and
>> paid plugins (e.g. Blender, Wordpress). This did not stopped many
>> developers to keep publishing free plugins, while allowed others to have an
>> easy way to sell their work.
>>
>> Our plugin repository has now lots of plugins that are no longer working
>> or with bugs because the developer no longer have the time or will to
>> maintain it. Maybe if some of these developers could receive a compensation
>> for their time this could change.
>>
>> Besides, QGIS is now very robust and offers so many functionality
>> already. Opposed to the past where some "core" functionality was depending
>> of free  third party plugins.
>>
>> Notice that there are already paid plugins. Some need api keys to work.
>> And other are being kept "secret" outside our plugin repository and they
>> could be useful for many more people.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>
>> A sexta, 2/02/2024, 16:38, Régis Haubourg via QGIS-Developer <
>> qgis-developer at lists.osgeo.org> escreveu:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have been sleeping over this thread a bit.
>>>
>>> We already have a lot of paid plugins and in the psc we try to contact
>>> vendors to have them aware of the GPL licence obligations. This is a lot of
>>> manual work, and this does not scale up obviously.
>>> Offering a marketplace in our plugin management system can be really
>>> interesting, since this would give us a way to explain GPL obligations to
>>> authors and offer them a place to advertise their products a lot better
>>> than letting them deal with their own systems.
>>>
>>> That said, the same question for QGIS.org general funding and
>>> sustainability also applies.
>>> We have been having a better fundings this year thanks to marketing
>>> efforts of Marco and Andreas, which allows us to consolidate some tasks,
>>> but we still live on a very low budget compared to the size of the project.
>>>
>>> Ideas have been thrown about using existing marketplaces (Windows store
>>> for instance) to collect regular incomes via notarized QGIS installers, but
>>> this is not an easy move given that we don't have permanent staff to handle
>>> with the administrative work this gives.
>>> Developing our own marketplace for plugins could indeed be a way to let
>>> users do a voluntary contribution to the project when buying a plugin, or
>>> even trade a very small percentage on sales to maintain the platform. Most
>>> payment associative tools I know always offer this possibility, I wouldn't
>>> be shocked personaly.
>>>
>>> If we keep a mandatory link to a repository in plugin metadata,  where
>>> source code is available, I think we preserve users that can't afford to
>>> pay. We might write down market place terms of use where we ask plugin
>>> authors for fair uses (no ads, no illegal use, security rules etc, no fake
>>> repository that would not really allow users to get the real source code..)
>>>
>>> And I agree with Alessandro here, having public sources availables will
>>> still let a large audience to the payment system. QGIS' audience is so
>>> large.
>>>
>>> All in all, this kind of system requires more efforts to maintain
>>> everything in place, and I would be in favor of growing up the budgets to
>>> have dedicated persons able to handle this, just like we already manage to
>>> do with documentation and infrastructure management (Thanks Kartozo, Lova
>>> and Selma, you do a great job)
>>>
>>> In short, I would be in favor of going this way, but we need to handle
>>> this as it is: grow up QGIS.org core to be able to handle those tasks. And
>>> growing the budget is the first thing missing maybe.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Régis
>>>
>>>
>>> Le ven. 2 févr. 2024 à 02:01, Emma Hain via QGIS-PSC <
>>> qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi All
>>>> The economics of this is very interesting.
>>>>
>>>> As a community, we want to give something to our fellow members that
>>>> they need. It allows for our creativity in scratching an itch, and sharing
>>>> that solution. However, we can break the mold and work out a novel way to
>>>> deliver. The open-source pledge North Road uses goes some way to doing
>>>> this. Whilst there a lot of tools are within the licensed (paid) version,
>>>> those tools are available for release once production costs are met. This
>>>> enables the plugin to continue to deliver to those who cannot pay for the
>>>> licensed version, whilst funding further work as technology organically
>>>> develops or additional needs pop-up. Also note that the remuneration funds
>>>> our support for the FOSS4G community, whether via sponsorship or applying
>>>> resources on the committee. So the funding for the plugin gets recycled in
>>>> the community, as well as going someway to providing a living wage.
>>>>
>>>> Shutting out people from the use of desired services should not be what
>>>> we are about - there has to be another way.
>>>>
>>>> In regards to taking over a plugin, this is how FOSS continues, if
>>>> someone is passionate about it, they can ask the creator to take it over.
>>>> As part of the marketplace, the community should also have this as a
>>>> service, a page listing the plugins that are not maintained or won't be
>>>> maintained and is anyone available to take them over. This is a great way
>>>> for up and coming developers to learn the craft from mentors.
>>>>
>>>> Keep the discussion going - this community is so creative that I think
>>>> we will come up with an option.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Em
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 at 22:33, C Hamilton via QGIS-Developer <
>>>> qgis-developer at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Nyall,
>>>>>
>>>>> First, thank you for all that you have done over the years. You have
>>>>> helped me a number of times in answering questions. Open source software is
>>>>> an interesting beast. There is so much donated time without compensation
>>>>> yet people need to feed themselves. My first QGIS plugin was in 2016 and I
>>>>> now have 12 QGIS plugins that are published (several more that are
>>>>> unpublished), but I am facing a dilemma. My work has funded all my
>>>>> development except for one plugin which I did for myself. Unfortunately, I
>>>>> was never really able to break into the ESRI culture here and a year or so
>>>>> ago was told to stop doing further QGIS development and to focus on other
>>>>> research. I did not find something that I liked as well so I am going to
>>>>> retire (because I can) in May. So my dilemma is what is going to happen
>>>>> with my plugins. I care about them. I have an agreement with another
>>>>> organization to take over support but after the first meeting I have no
>>>>> confidence that they will be able to do it. I will probably still fix some
>>>>> bugs after I retire, but I am not all that interested in working for free.
>>>>> I want to explore new hobbies in retirement so any QGIS work would be
>>>>> minimal unless it also fits in with one of my hobbies.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know how to get compensation in the open source world unless
>>>>> there is a company who is investing in and developing open source software.
>>>>> It would be nice if there were a mechanism for developers to get some
>>>>> compensation.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a difficult topic to address, but I hope something comes out
>>>>> of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Calvin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 8:28 PM Nyall Dawson via QGIS-Developer <
>>>>> qgis-developer at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi lists!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to kick start a (hopefully!) civil, THEORETICAL discussion
>>>>>> about the role of a paid plugin marketplace for QGIS plugins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This has been on my mind for a while, and recently was bumped by this
>>>>>> email to the list:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 at 19:38, gam17--- via QGIS-Developer <
>>>>>> qgis-developer at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Hi everyone,
>>>>>> >     like many of you, I have developed and maintained a plugin for
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> > years completely free of charge.
>>>>>> > I have never received any donation or compensation of any kind and
>>>>>> now I
>>>>>> > would like to find a solution.
>>>>>> > Has anyone already found a way to receive donations?
>>>>>> > I was thinking of asking for a sponsor that would be displayed
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> > execution, for example in the window titles or through a specific
>>>>>> menu
>>>>>> > item like QGIS does (in this way the sponsor would be much less
>>>>>> > visible).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So again, stressing that this is a THEORETICAL discussion, I'm
>>>>>> interested in hearing people's thoughts on the potential role of a paid
>>>>>> plugin marketplace for QGIS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a bullet point dump of where I'm currently sitting:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Yes, I'm aware that plugins must be GPL, and that this makes paid
>>>>>> plugins a little trickier in that they're obviously still subject to the
>>>>>> GPL.
>>>>>> - The GPL does NOT prevent charging for software, or mandate making
>>>>>> it public to non-paying customers. We could potentially have GPL plugins
>>>>>> which are only available to paid users, and only make these plugins
>>>>>> available privately to those users. YES, the GPL **DOES** mean that those
>>>>>> paying customers can redistribute the plugin publicly and freely without
>>>>>> issue if they want (and regardless of whether the original developer wants!)
>>>>>> - In fact, there's already likely thousands of private, paid for
>>>>>> plugins out there! I'm talking here of plugins made specifically for
>>>>>> internal use by one organisation only. Yep, that organisation COULD make
>>>>>> the plugin public/freely available, but in many cases they are specific to
>>>>>> that one organisation's needs or contain organisation sensitive logic/data.
>>>>>> These plugins are completely compliant with the GPL, despite being private
>>>>>> and paid for by that organisation.
>>>>>> - There's nothing preventing a public GPL QGIS plugin from depending
>>>>>> on a subscription based back-end, and offering zero value to anyone not
>>>>>> paying for that backend. And there's a growing number of these plugins,
>>>>>> which depend on users paying xxx large corporate entity regular high fees
>>>>>> to access the backend service. The GPL doesn't (and arguably
>>>>>> shouldn't) prevent these large entities from making money off QGIS plugins.
>>>>>> - But this means that the current situation is unfairly weighted
>>>>>> toward these large entities! A one-person team making an excellent plugin
>>>>>> and providing an awesome tool for use in QGIS has a MUCH MUCH harder time
>>>>>> finding ANY financial compensation for their efforts! I don't like this
>>>>>> situation at all, and I'd say it goes against the "spirit" of why QGIS was
>>>>>> made under the GPL in the first place. The big corporate entities win, the
>>>>>> smaller community focused developers lose out. 👎
>>>>>> - Despite the fact that a paid user could freely re-distribute a
>>>>>> paid-for plugin, there's still potential financial gain for the developer
>>>>>> in making a plugin available for a charge on a theoretical QGIS plugin
>>>>>> marketplace.
>>>>>> - The blender market is a great example of this. There's LOTS of GPL
>>>>>> blender add ons available there at charge. Eg
>>>>>> https://blendermarket.com/products/hard-ops--boxcutter-ultimate-bundle?num=2&src=top
>>>>>> as one example. If those numbers are accurate, that developer has sold >35k
>>>>>> copies of a GPL licensed add on at $39 each. I'm going to go out on a limb
>>>>>> here and guess that that developer's motivation to make their add-on
>>>>>> excellent is considerably higher than the developer of an equivalent QGIS
>>>>>> plugin 🤣 (not to mention that their time investment is much more
>>>>>> justifiable). And any ONE of those 35k paid users could have made the
>>>>>> plugin freely available for everyone else... but that hasn't stopped the
>>>>>> sales.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what does everyone else think? Would there be a THEORETICAL place
>>>>>> for a THEORETICAL paid QGIS plugin marketplace somewhere in the future? Or
>>>>>> is there a better model we could (theoretically 🤪) follow to financially
>>>>>> reward plugin developers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nyall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Emma Hain — Product Manager/Senior GIS Analyst
>>>> emma at north-road.com
>>>> [image: https://north-road.com]
>>>> *North Road*
>>>> Cartography • Development • Spatial Analysis
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *north-road.com* <http://north-road.com>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/northroadgeo>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/north-road-studios>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/North-Road-997236690392419/home>
>>>>
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>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>
> Tim Sutton
> Kartoza Co-Founder
> Visit http://kartoza.com to find out about open source:
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> Tim is a member of the QGIS Project Steering Committee
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