[Qgis-psc] Financial warning

Sat Mar 9 10:22:52 PST 2019

Hi

Jonathan I think this is one area where you will find unanimous agreement: The rate paid for bug fixing is outstanding value given the amount of effort that goes into the bug fixing work and all the not-charged-for effort that the same bug fixers contribute. 

All of them are top-notch developers and we have never had any indication that they are anything but trustworthy. I think if there is economising / value maximising to be had it is in identifying critical issues that we want them to work on because they have the unenviable task of also trying to weed out which issues are well described and repeatable enough to be fixed which consumes a heap of time before they even get started!

Regards

Tim

> On 09 Mar 2019, at 11:26, Paolo Cavallini <cavallini at faunalia.it> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I strongly support the idea to treat our developers with maximum
> confidence: this is the way it has always been, and this approach proved
> hugely successful.
> We just have to devise a way to have a consistent budget, allowing for
> maximum and hassle-free bug fixing effort, within known limits.
> All the best.
> 
> On 05/03/19 00:01, Nyall Dawson wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 03:30, Jonathan Moules
>> <jonathan-lists at lightpear.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> - what would be a fair amount how to distribute the money between
>>> devs/companies and who would decide?
>>> Maybe having some sort of auction process where the lowest bids get the
>>> work.
>> 
>> Just to add my 2c to the existing replies:
>> 
>> Currently the bulk of QGIS development work is handled by a handful of
>> commercial organisations. We're very fortunate in the QGIS project
>> that although these organisations are in some ways competitors, there
>> is still a great spirit of cooperation and collaboration between them
>> all. Requiring a process like a reverse auction sounds very aggressive
>> and competitive to me, and risks harming this cooperative spirit (to
>> *everyone's* detriment).
>> 
>> The other reality is that all developers/organisations participating
>> in the funded bug fixes are running at something like 3:1 unpaid vs
>> paid bug fixing. When you factor this in, the rate is actually a
>> bargain! (not to mention that you're getting the efforts of THE qgis
>> code experts, and the few people who can smash out bug fixes at a
>> speed 100x of those not intimately aware of the guts of the codebase).
>> 
>> I think, as others have said, the ideal solution would be getting more
>> publicity out about the benefits of sponsoring the project and the
>> return on investment received. I personally think the most logical
>> next step here would be to implement
>> https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/102 so that
>> we have a direct marketing channel to ALL our users, in order to
>> publicise efforts like this.
>> 
>> Nyall
>> 
>>> 
>>> Just my 2p.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2019-03-02 11:35, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>> 
>>>> It is very hard to coordinate the exact amount of bug fixing, due to
>>>> several reasons:
>>>> 
>>>> - devs can only roughly tell me how many days they are really
>>>> available. So I don't know in advance, until I get the invoice.
>>>> 
>>>> - information comes in at totally different times. Some devs only tell
>>>> me quite late that they are available while others already spent some
>>>> days working on it
>>>> 
>>>> - what would be a fair amount how to distribute the money between
>>>> devs/companies and who would decide?
>>>> 
>>>> In general I think we should be grateful that the core devs
>>>> participate in the paid bug fixing campaign for the low rate of 100 €
>>>> h for us - because if they would sell their services to clients at the
>>>> same time, they would probably charge 150-180 € an hour and earn more
>>>> and potentially have a more interesting task than fixing bugs in QGIS.
>>>> However through their efforts, in return they get the benefit of a
>>>> "better QGIS" where they could more easily sell their services around
>>>> QGIS, if it more stable and of better quality. And lets not forget
>>>> that we have also a lot of "unpaid" contributions towards QGIS.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally, I would like to keep the process of accepting all
>>>> available bug fixing hours we get, but rather try to get more funds in.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Andreas
>>>> 
>>>> Am 02.03.19 um 12:27 schrieb Paolo Cavallini:
>>>>> Hi Andreas,
>>>>> thanks for this warning. What prevents us from sticking to the budget,
>>>>> and allocating to bugfixing only what is available?
>>>>> I think communicating our needs will help in this regard: I believe
>>>>> donors will be more motivated when they will know all the additional
>>>>> donations will go into bugfixing.
>>>>> All the best.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 02/03/19 12:17, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In that respect I hope that our change from sponsors  to sustaining
>>>>>> members (to be voted on during the upcoming AGM) will help to attract
>>>>>> more organizations to join as financial supporters. I am positive that
>>>>>> it will help, esp. for governmental organizations and universities.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 02.03.19 um 11:50 schrieb Andreas Neumann:
>>>>>>> Dear PSC,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the light of the current discussion around AGM and fast release
>>>>>>> pace, here is some additional information and concern I have as the
>>>>>>> financial manager of the project:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Most of our financial resources go into bug fixing (> 50%) and I have
>>>>>>> the impression that this share is increasing every year. Currently I
>>>>>>> have to send out a warning that our financial resources are dwindling
>>>>>>> rapidly - our bank account is down below 30k €. For every release we
>>>>>>> spend about 10-20k more on bug fixing than allocated in the budget. As
>>>>>>> a consequence, we will have to either cancel the QGIS grants this year
>>>>>>> or skip bug fixing of release 3.8 or cut down drastically if we can't
>>>>>>> find additional financial supporters. I am very grateful that many
>>>>>>> core qgis devs can find the time to participate in the paid bug fixing
>>>>>>> (and they do a very good job!) - but unfortunately bugs are coming in
>>>>>>> quicker ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't want to sound overly pessimistic - but it is my duty to let
>>>>>>> you know about this development that we currently spend more than we
>>>>>>> get in. Something will have to change in this respect during the 3.8
>>>>>>> release or we'll have to skip the QGIS grants program this year.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Qgis-psc mailing list
>>>>>>> Qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Qgis-psc mailing list
>>>>>> Qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Qgis-psc mailing list
>>>> Qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Qgis-psc mailing list
>>> Qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-psc mailing list
>> Qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS.ORG Chair:
> http://planet.qgis.org/planet/user/28/tag/qgis%20board/
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-psc mailing list
> Qgis-psc at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc

---

Tim Sutton
tim at qgis.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-psc/attachments/20190309/640596df/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: qgis-icon-60x60.png
Type: image/png
Size: 4401 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-psc/attachments/20190309/640596df/attachment.png>