[Qgis-user] Qgis-user Digest, Vol 130, Issue 23

Edward Curran curran.edward at gmail.com
Fri Dec 16 12:07:00 PST 2016 

Arc is what is taught in US schools but the switch to Q is not that hard.
in fact from a students perspective I feel that by learning from  different
perspectives one can learn better. Here in Portland the whole public
transit system switched onto Q and I intend to work in Q once I start out
in the field. Arc is a fine suite of tools but they cost money - from what
I can tell , learning Python, R and some kind of  open source graphics
program, spreadsheet, also Q cost nothing licence wise and  are
collectively a decent skill set to start out a career in GIS.

 I complete my assignments in arc but pursue side projects in Q because I
know once I am out of school I won't have the license anymore, plus Q can
do the job just as well anyway.

On Dec 16, 2016 3:35 AM, <qgis-user-request at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice (Blumentrath, Stefan)
>    2. Re: QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice (Erik Meerburg)
>    3. Re: QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice (Nicolas Cadieux)
>    4. Re: QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice (Innisfree McKinnon)
>    5. Re: QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice (Nyall Dawson)
>    6. Digitising a vector line by measurement (Paul Shapley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:54:49 +0000
> From: "Blumentrath, Stefan" <Stefan.Blumentrath at nina.no>
> To: Markus Weidenbach <landconsult at freenet.de>,
>         "qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org" <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice
> Message-ID: <668886fbc5284208b2acc72879a2c545 at NINSRV23.nina.no>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> There is http://gisgeography.com/mapping-out-gis-software-landscape/
>
> Which hopelessly overrates ArcGIS, also because of a US centric
> perspective. However, the Authors use Google trends and statistics on
> GIS.SE to rank popularity of GIS. And if you do that QGIS is nr. 1 in
> Europe at least. Note also the trend in the google trends curves, esp. If
> you take Italy as an example.
> People close to retirement can probably stick to Arc, but people who are
> students now will have to learn open source in their career, no doubt...
> Even in a rich country like norway a significat number of university
> courses on GIS (esp. such related to ecology) switched to Open Source and
> mostly QGIS...
>
> Cheers
> Stefan
> ________________________________________
> Von: Qgis-user [qgis-user-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] im Auftrag von Markus
> Weidenbach [landconsult at freenet.de]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Dezember 2016 20:07
> An: qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
> Betreff: [Qgis-user] QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice
>
> Dear List,
>
> I was asked to give a 5 days international GIS training course at the
> university and proposed to do it with QGIS. The program leader finally
> insisted on doing it with ArcGIS arguing  that the students had better
> chances to find a job knowing ArcGIS rather than QGIS. This argumentation
> does not reflect my long professional experience as a GIS consultant at all!
> But how can I proof that knowing QGIS is the better choice for young GIS
> professionals than ArcGIS (or at least that both systems are equally
> suited)?
> Does anybody know any official numbers of GIS users worldwide or on the
> worldwide application of QGIS over ArcGIS?
>
> I know the Master thesis from Boku Vienna (https://geoobserver.
> wordpress.com/2016/02/09/arcgis-vs-qgis/) but it is focused on a
> technical comparison of both systems only.
> Also the link https://www.g2crowd.com/grid_report/documents/gis-winter-
> 2016-report is not really helpful because it is based on some 40 reviews
> only and therefore not representative.
> I really need to know some proven facts on the number of global QGIS users
> and renown companies using QGIS worldwide.
>
> Thanks for your help in advance,
> Markus
>
> --
> Dr. Markus Weidenbach
> landConsult.de
> Geographical Information Management
> and Environmental Planning
> D-77815 Bühl
> Germany
> e.mail see: http://landConsult.de
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 23:04:35 +0100
> From: Erik Meerburg <erik at geo-academie.nl>
> To: qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice
> Message-ID: <25c0ef57-a323-b686-078d-fbaa0ba6f2af at geo-academie.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Markus,
>
> Imho, especially at a university you shouldn't teach specific software
> at all. Teach the students spatial thinking, generic geospatial tools
> and how (and why!) they work, knowing how to tackle a problem with (any)
> GIS, and leave the software choice open to the students, where you as a
> teacher can can offer to help them in two or even three different
> specific brands.
>
> Any university that prescribes specific software where more then one
> (good) option is available should be ashamed of itself. Think of it as a
> Car University that only teaches Ford-specific things. No matter how you
> look at it, that is bad. Even if they would promote QGIS or Open Source
> GIS as a whole that way, it would still be bad because you would not be
> tought about alternatives. Well, maybe that's one for the future ;-).
>
> Okay, one exception maybe: if the training includes writing new plugins
> or other extras to an existing software project. In that case,
> prescribing to build that for that specific project seems fine to me.
> but if it's about *using *GIS, ah well. Think I've made my point clear
> enough.
>
> So, maybe I'm pushing a bit away from the choice between Arc and Q, but
> you might consider the case of doing (at least) both.
>
> Erik.
>
>
> Op 15-12-2016 om 20:07 schreef Markus Weidenbach:
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I was asked to give a 5 days international GIS training course at the
> > university and proposed to do it with QGIS. The program leader finally
> > insisted on doing it with ArcGIS arguing  that the students had better
> > chances to find a job knowing ArcGIS rather than QGIS. This
> > argumentation does not reflect my long professional experience as a
> > GIS consultant at all!
> > But how can I proof that knowing QGIS is the better choice for young
> > GIS professionals than ArcGIS (or at least that both systems are
> > equally suited)?
> > Does anybody know any official numbers of GIS users worldwide or on
> > the worldwide application of QGIS over ArcGIS?
> >
> > I know the Master thesis from Boku Vienna
> > (https://geoobserver.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/arcgis-vs-qgis/) but it
> > is focused on a technical comparison of both systems only.
> > Also the link
> > https://www.g2crowd.com/grid_report/documents/gis-winter-2016-report
> > is not really helpful because it is based on some 40 reviews only and
> > therefore not representative.
> > I really need to know some proven facts on the number of global QGIS
> > users and renown companies using QGIS worldwide.
> >
> > Thanks for your help in advance,
> > Markus
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Markus Weidenbach
> > *landConsult.de*
> > Geographical Information Management
> > and Environmental Planning
> > D-77815 Bühl
> > Germany
> > e.mail see: http://landConsult.de
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qgis-user mailing list
> > Qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
> > List info: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>
> --
> Erik Meerburg Directeur Geo Academie (06) 2816 7631 erik at geo-academie.nl
> /Op 1 april 2016 start Kwaliteit in Webservices weer Alle ins & outs
> over geo op het web in 10 vrijdagen!/
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:38:30 -0700 (MST)
> From: Nicolas Cadieux <nicolas.cadieux at archeotec.ca>
> To: qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice
> Message-ID: <04CDFE07-1FF5-4919-9DB9-171162EDB2C2 at archeotec.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a good question! My answer would be that students have a better
> chance of having a job if the learn GIS and not a software.  The software
> is only a tool!  If they have an ArcGIS licence at the university and can
> use it year round with the university, they could learn with that.
>
> My experience is that afterwards, they will either pirate the software or
> abandons GIS because they cannot pay for the software.  Also, more and more
> students are on Macs and ArcGIS will not work unless you have a dual boot,
> a virtual PC or a online licence.
>
> Also, if you want to just use a software as a technician and make GIS
> research,  you can use ArcGIS.  If you want a really good paying job and
> want to be able learn how to develop software and develop GIS, then QGIS or
> OpenSource is the way to go!
>
> To think that learning GIS = learning a software is short sighted.  Would
> you trust a statistician if all he learned in university is how to use a
> particular software or would you prefer someone who really knows what
> statistics are all about???
>
> Nicolas
>
>
>
>
> > Le 15 déc. 2016 à 14:18, Markus Weidenbach [via OSGeo.org] <
> ml-node+s1560n5300057h28 at n6.nabble.com> a écrit :
> >
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I was asked to give a 5 days international GIS training course at the
> university and proposed to do it with QGIS. The program leader finally
> insisted on doing it with ArcGIS arguing  that the students had better
> chances to find a job knowing ArcGIS rather than QGIS. This argumentation
> does not reflect my long professional experience as a GIS consultant at all!
> > But how can I proof that knowing QGIS is the better choice for young GIS
> professionals than ArcGIS (or at least that both systems are equally
> suited)?
> > Does anybody know any official numbers of GIS users worldwide or on the
> worldwide application of QGIS over ArcGIS?
> >
> > I know the Master thesis from Boku Vienna (https://geoobserver.
> wordpress.com/2016/02/09/arcgis-vs-qgis/) but it is focused on a
> technical comparison of both systems only.
> > Also the link https://www.g2crowd.com/grid_report/documents/gis-winter-
> 2016-report is not really helpful because it is based on some 40 reviews
> only and therefore not representative.
> > I really need to know some proven facts on the number of global QGIS
> users and renown companies using QGIS worldwide.
> >
> > Thanks for your help in advance,
> > Markus
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Markus Weidenbach
> > landConsult.de
> > Geographical Information Management
> > and Environmental Planning
> > D-77815 Bühl
> > Germany
> > e.mail see: http://landConsult.de
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qgis-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > List info: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> >
> > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> > http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/QGIS-vs-ArcGIS-in-
> Education-and-Practice-tp5300057.html
> > To start a new topic under Quantum GIS - User, email
> ml-node+s1560n4125267h38 at n6.nabble.com
> > To unsubscribe from Quantum GIS - User, click here.
> > NAML
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.
> nabble.com/QGIS-vs-ArcGIS-in-Education-and-Practice-tp5300057p5300086.html
> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:45:05 -0600
> From: Innisfree McKinnon <innisfree.mckinnon at gmail.com>
> To: Nicolas Cadieux <nicolas.cadieux at archeotec.ca>
> Cc: qgis-user <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice
> Message-ID:
>         <CAFr9oOSOw7-C4R4=2CBb04pgSQyKj+MCVhDQQ7oXpCfRNTtAMg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This is an interesting discussion. I teach GIS classes at a small
> university in the U.S. and while I completely agree with the concept of
> teaching spatial concepts and not the software, in practice, this
> distinction doesn't eliminate the need to choose in a university setting.
> In practice GIS is taught through tutorials and tutorials are set up for
> particular programs. You can't expect beginning students to go from
> abstract concepts to multi-step analysis processes without some direction
> as to how to use the software.
>
> Also, the students at my university get campus issued laptops that don't
> have space to run GIS software, so they have to work in the one campus
> computer lab where GIS is installed. I have to work with campus IT to make
> sure the software is properly installed and updated. When students log in,
> they don't have admin permissions so they can't choose to install QGIS if
> it isn't already installed.
>
> I have be advocating for teaching open source software. But once students
> get used to one software, they don't want to go back and try to figure out
> another system. I did have students try out QGIS, but they weren't excited.
> I haven't used QGIS enough to discuss the differences and potential
> benefits in particular situations, other than accessibility and
> affordability.
>
> It shouldn't be one software or another, but students need to have a reason
> to learn a new platform. I know there are some articles/posts online
> comparing, but I have never seen a class that actually integrated teaching
> with more than one platform. Beginning college students are usually
> frustrated enough just trying to understand one.
>
> I would love to hear suggestions for approaches or resources. Also, many
> university instructors have a heavy teaching load and limited time to keep
> up with shifting software. I'm pretty much the only person at my U. that
> teaches GIS. I am being expected to teach everything related to geospatial
> technologies...so it is tough to stay up to date without introducing
> additional software to learn. I need to focus on how best to teach concepts
> not spend my time learning how to troubleshoot multiple software packages.
>
> Innisfree
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Nicolas Cadieux <
> nicolas.cadieux at archeotec.ca> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is a good question! My answer would be that students have a better
> > chance of having a job if the learn GIS and not a software.  The software
> > is only a tool!  If they have an ArcGIS licence at the university and can
> > use it year round with the university, they could learn with that.
> >
> > My experience is that afterwards, they will either pirate the software or
> > abandons GIS because they cannot pay for the software.  Also, more and
> more
> > students are on Macs and ArcGIS will not work unless you have a dual
> boot,
> > a virtual PC or a online licence.
> >
> > Also, if you want to just use a software as a technician and make GIS
> > research,  you can use ArcGIS.  If you want a really good paying job and
> > want to be able learn how to develop software and develop GIS, then QGIS
> or
> > OpenSource is the way to go!
> >
> > To think that learning GIS = learning a software is short sighted.  Would
> > you trust a statistician if all he learned in university is how to use a
> > particular software or would you prefer someone who really knows what
> > statistics are all about???
> >
> > Nicolas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 15 déc. 2016 à 14:18, Markus Weidenbach [via OSGeo.org] <[hidden
> email]
> > <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5300086&i=0>> a écrit :
> >
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I was asked to give a 5 days international GIS training course at the
> > university and proposed to do it with QGIS. The program leader finally
> > insisted on doing it with ArcGIS arguing  that the students had better
> > chances to find a job knowing ArcGIS rather than QGIS. This argumentation
> > does not reflect my long professional experience as a GIS consultant at
> all!
> > But how can I proof that knowing QGIS is the better choice for young GIS
> > professionals than ArcGIS (or at least that both systems are equally
> > suited)?
> > Does anybody know any official numbers of GIS users worldwide or on the
> > worldwide application of QGIS over ArcGIS?
> >
> > I know the Master thesis from Boku Vienna (https://geoobserver.
> > wordpress.com/2016/02/09/arcgis-vs-qgis/) but it is focused on a
> > technical comparison of both systems only.
> > Also the link https://www.g2crowd.com/grid_report/documents/gis-winter-
> > 2016-report is not really helpful because it is based on some 40 reviews
> > only and therefore not representative.
> > I really need to know some proven facts on the number of global QGIS
> users
> > and renown companies using QGIS worldwide.
> >
> > Thanks for your help in advance,
> > Markus
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Markus Weidenbach
> > *landConsult.de <http://landConsult.de>*
> > Geographical Information Management
> > and Environmental Planning
> > D-77815 Bühl
> > Germany
> > e.mail see: http://landConsult.de
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qgis-user mailing list
> > [hidden email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5300057&i=0>
> > List info: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> > below:
> > http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/QGIS-vs-ArcGIS-in-
> > Education-and-Practice-tp5300057.html
> > To start a new topic under Quantum GIS - User, email [hidden email]
> > <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5300086&i=1>
> > To unsubscribe from Quantum GIS - User, click here.
> > NAML
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> > View this message in context: Re: QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and
> Practice
> > <http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/QGIS-vs-ArcGIS-in-
> Education-and-Practice-tp5300057p5300086.html>
> > Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive
> > <http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Quantum-GIS-User-f4125267.html> at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qgis-user mailing list
> > Qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
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> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 15:40:43 +1000
> From: Nyall Dawson <nyall.dawson at gmail.com>
> To: Nicolas Cadieux <nicolas.cadieux at archeotec.ca>
> Cc: qgis-user <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS vs ArcGIS in Education and Practice
> Message-ID:
>         <CAB28AsjVENAiE3a+piN48UTO_kADGmuKt7+=Pfc_pbcdM81Apw@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 16 December 2016 at 08:38, Nicolas Cadieux
> <nicolas.cadieux at archeotec.ca> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is a good question! My answer would be that students have a better
> > chance of having a job if the learn GIS and not a software.
>
> +1 to that. To put it bluntly, I think ANY GIS practitioner who can
> only list experience with a single application (or vendor's suite) on
> their resume is not at all competitive in today's market. There's
> enough free open source or trial software available that it really
> shows a lack of motivation for someone not to have skills in more than
> one application.
>
> Nyall
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 11:35:19 +0000
> From: Paul Shapley <p.shapley at gmail.com>
> To: qgis-user List <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: [Qgis-user] Digitising a vector line by measurement
> Message-ID:
>         <CAK-x10nuqZUV2mkTgHg7yghp-01BqP32TjssDrgR_vEL8ttP_g@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Users,
>
> I'm looking for a way to digitise a vector line of say 13 metres, so when i
> click on point (A) i get feedback whilst i move the curser to point (B)
> when i get to the 13m point.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> *Paul J. Shapley *MSc CGeog (GIS) FRGS
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