[Qgis-user] [EXTERNAL] Re: Geopackage slow on NAS if not read-only
Bo Victor Thomsen
bo.victor.thomsen at gmail.com
Thu Mar 16 06:35:16 PDT 2023
When any user on your network access the geopackage layer and (maybe
unnecessarily) puts the layer in edit mode, there will be created 2
extra files in the same directory as the gpkg file resides in. And QGIS
behaves different regarding /both/ read and write operations when these
file are present. This is probably the explanation of the longer reading
times, even if nobody actually is editing the layer. When the user stops
the editing mode for the layer, the 2 files disappear.
You can check if this is the explanation:
1. Open the gpkg layer in read mode on one computer, check the access
speed of the same layer on /another/ computer.
2. Set the layer in edit mode on the first computer, check the access
speed to the layer on the second computer
3. Revert the edit mode on the first computer, check the access speed
to the layer on the second computer.
I am guessing, that situations 1 and 3 are fast, while situation 2 is slow.
First of all: Never, ever try to implement some kind of multi-user
editing on a file based format, where the file resides on a networked
drive. It will never, ever work reliably. At some point 2 users will try
to edit the same layer at the same time and it will go kaboom (I can
read from your mails that you are aware about this). This goes for -
probably - every file based format on a network drive.
Secondly: What about making the gpkg file read-only at the network share
level for most of the users. And only granting write access to the gpkg
file for certain users that are instructed in /not/ setting the layer in
edit mode unless it's strictly necessary ?
The best solution: Install Postgres/PostGIS on your NAS
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Bo Victor Thomsen
Den 16-03-2023 kl. 13:49 skrev Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User:
> Thank you for the various responses.
> Let me be clear that what I am griping about is not the locking aspect
> that would allow multiple users to edit without conflict. I fully
> understand that the geopackage is not safe for that, nor is the
> shapefile and perhaps also the file geodatabase. In my case, the
> likelihood of two people wanting to edit the same geopackage is
> negligible, so I take my chances. My only gripe is the rendering speed
> of larger geopackages on a shared network, if they are not set
> specifically to read-only. That is not a problem with the shapefile
> and I think probably not with a file geodatabase. I am a long time
> user of geopackages in a networked environment and I will continue to
> use them - they are great - there is just this problem of rendering
> speed over a network.
>
> Árni
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 12:33, Sebastian Gutwein <bas at rdgland.com> wrote:
>
> This is all beyond my expertise but I have also struggled with the
> effective use of gpkg’s. In my case over google drive.
> Here is what SQLite (the underlying software for gpkgs) says about
> using a SQLite database on a network:
> https://www.sqlite.org/useovernet.html
>
> I hope that someday someone implements a system that allows this
> to work efficiently as gpkgs are better in many respects than
> shapefiles. Perhaps Geodiff could be part of that solution.
> https://github.com/MerginMaps/geodiff
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 8:04 AM Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User
> <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Jorge
> I understand what you are pointing at and I use databases such
> as Postgres/PostGIS also with good results. The thing is that
> working with data in files sometimes has advantages and that
> is certainly how shapefiles have been used. The geopackage has
> been suggested as a replacement for the shapefile in the
> context of regular QGIS usage without any caveat saying that
> geopackages only replace the storage and transfer role of
> shapefiles and that geopackages should not be used for
> editing in a shared environment, as is perfectly possible with
> shapefiles and widely practiced. Not all users have access to
> database systems such as Postgres. I'm just looking for some
> clarity on best practices for the common scenario of working
> with QGIS using file based data in a network environment.
>
> Árni
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 11:47, Jorge Gustavo Rocha via
> QGIS-User <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> For data storage and manipulation databases are suitable.
> Files are not.
>
> Geopackages are wonderful to transfer data between systems
> or to archive an entire project (snapshot of data, styles
> and the project itself).
>
> Regards,
>
> Jorge
>
> On 16/03/23 11:30, Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User wrote:
>> Thank you Jarosław. Isn't it strange that this was
>> discussed 5 years ago and SMB file sharing is very
>> common? Would a linux based NAS be able to use another
>> protocol? What are my options for file based data sharing
>> in QGIS? Abandoning geopackages is not a realistic option
>> for me, but I could get a different kind of NAS unit, if
>> that helps, what kind then? What amazes me is how little
>> I see this discussed. There was a message in this thread
>> this morning from Thomas Struller, but I am not sure it
>> is about the same root problem, maybe Thomas can elaborate.
>> Should this perhaps be discussed in another forum, closer
>> to the development of geopackage/sqlite?
>>
>> Árni Geirsson
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 09:52, Sadowski Jarosław
>> <jaroslaw.sadowski at cpk.pl> wrote:
>>
>> Long story short: gpkg is bad idea for network drives
>> as SMB/NAS etc
>>
>> Sources:
>> Write-Ahead Logging (sqlite.org)
>> <https://www.sqlite.org/wal.html#advantages>
>>
>> writing gpkg and sqlite on samba shares fails · Issue
>> #628 · r-spatial/sf · GitHub
>> <https://github.com/r-spatial/sf/issues/628>
>>
>>
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>> *From:*QGIS-User <qgis-user-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> *On Behalf Of *Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 16, 2023 10:18 AM
>> *To:* jhubbslist at att.net
>> *Cc:* qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Qgis-user] Geopackage slow
>> on NAS if not read-only
>>
>> UWAGA: Ta wiadomość pochodzi spoza CPK Sp. z o.o.
>> Proszę pomóż zadbać o bezpieczeństwo naszej
>> organizacji. Zastanów się, zanim otworzysz link lub
>> załącznik.
>>
>> Yes, as far as I know, the NAS unit uses SMB as the
>> file sharing protocol. I used another NAS from QNAP
>> before this one, also using SMB and with the same
>> problem. I thought pretty much all of the Linux based
>> NAS units were using SMB and if that is the problem,
>> it should be widespread, but I don't see any signs of
>> that. Is SMB a problem for geopackage?
>>
>> I did a quick test in QGIS: A dataset of 178.000 line
>> features is rendered in about 1 second from a read
>> only geopackage. When I remove the read only flag, it
>> is rendered in about 5 seconds.
>>
>> If I store the geopackage on the local hard drive,
>> the problem disappears, read-write or read-only does
>> not matter.
>>
>> I have had suspicions about SMB being part of the
>> problem but I don't know enough about file access
>> deep down in the operating system to understand it.
>>
>> Árni Geirsson
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 01:45, jhubbslist--- via
>> QGIS-User <qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Árni -
>>
>> Are you using SMB/CIFS to access this NAS, and
>> are you using wifi or Ethernet to connect to it?
>>
>> - Jeff
>>
>> On 3/15/23 3:30 PM, Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all QGIS and geopackage users.
>>
>> I store my geopackages on a Synology
>> RackStation NAS unit, like all other
>> documents that are kept on a shared drive in
>> the office. For larger datasets, the
>> rendering is very slow, unless I open the
>> properties dialog for the file in Windows and
>> check the read only box. After that, the
>> features are rendered blazingly fast. Nothing
>> else is changed to see the dramatic
>> difference in the rendering speed. Luckily, I
>> don't need to edit many of the larger
>> datasets, such as road networks and elevation
>> contours and the geopackage can be kept read
>> only. Shapefiles are not affected.
>>
>> What explains this and does anyone know how
>> to solve the problem?
>>
>> Do other users experience this?
>>
>> Árni Geirsson
>>
>>
>>
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