[SeasonOfDocs] Email list research
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Tue Aug 20 05:49:08 PDT 2019
Jo, I've created myself a second github user id, camerons69, and have
invited camerons69 to the discuss thread.
My 2nd account was then invited to join thegooddocsproject, and was
added to the discuss thread. That worked well.
It appears that the list is not publicly visible, which limits the value
of archiving and searching. I'm not sure if that can be fixed as a
config setting?
On 16/8/19 8:31 pm, Jo Cook wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've created a new discussion "team" called "discuss" to attempt to
> replicate a standard mailing list. I deliberately haven't invited
> anyone to join it but I believe you should all be able to request access.
>
> I think to test this properly, we may need to reduce the current level
> of access that some people have, from repository/project owner down to
> something with a little less privileges. Can someone volunteer to have
> their access temporarily reduced please? Also can people see what
> happens when they try to join the new discuss team?
>
> I can also see that we can have a membership type called "Outside
> Collaborator". Is anyone familiar with what that entails?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jo
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 1:06 PM Sanket Totewar <sanket at totewar.com
> <mailto:sanket at totewar.com>> wrote:
>
> I've been playing around with GitHub discussions on the project.
>
> Even though I am not in the GitHub team, I could try a few things.
> I reckon only those on the team or admins have the power to 'delete'.
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 7:29 AM Jo Cook <jo.k.cook at gmail.com
> <mailto:jo.k.cook at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Cameron,
>
> I don't see the need for a GitHub username to be a
> showstopper, I see it as being roughly equivalent to
> subscribing to a mailing list, particularly as anyone actually
> wanting to contribute will need those credentials anyhow. I
> was also envisaging that we'd have an open "team" for general
> discussions, as well as the potential for restricted teams for
> different use cases if required. I don't see this as any
> different to OSGeo's restricted mailing lists for the board,
> conferences etc.
>
> I agree being able to delete messages or threads is
> problematic, and needs more investigation though. I have
> reached out to GitHub help and hope to get some answers to our
> questions though. I did get a response to my initial enquiry,
> so I'm optimistic we will get clarification.
>
> Jo
>
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, 12:07 Cameron Shorter,
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Ok, I just had a play around with a GitHub teams
> discussion page, which Felicity set up and Jo and I have
> been added to:
>
> https://github.com/orgs/thegooddocsproject/teams/website
>
> Some major concerns I have with it are:
>
> * I can delete a message I add to a discussion.
>
> * It appears I can also delete someone else's message if I
> had a personal gripe with them (probably because I have
> admin access). (The delete button is there, I didn't test
> it). This creates a fundamental problem for retaining
> archives.
>
> * It appears I can only contribute to conversations if I
> have a github username (and possibly only if I am a member
> of the group). Can someone other than Jo/Felicity/me
> contribute to the conversation? This is not going to work
> as a community support email list.
>
> I find these two issues significant and are probably show
> stoppers for selecting GitHub Team Discussions to replace
> an email list.
>
> On 14/8/19 7:28 am, Sanket Totewar wrote:
>> *From today's call*
>>
>> Additional comments from Sanket: A couple of features
>> that GitHub discussions have that make them a better
>> choice are (1) the ability to watch/unwatch teams
>> <https://help.github.com/en/articles/watching-and-unwatching-team-discussions>,
>> subscribe/unsubscribe to/from discussions
>> <https://help.github.com/en/articles/subscribing-to-and-unsubscribing-from-notifications> and
>> pin/unpin discussions
>> <https://help.github.com/en/articles/pinning-a-team-discussion> and
>> (2) it allows markdown so we get checklists, emojis,
>> tables, etc. which greatly improve readability.
>>
>> Additional comments from Jo and Cameron: The GitHub
>> discussions API
>> <https://developer.github.com/v3/teams/discussions/> can
>> be used to fetch discussions but we may need to store
>> them in a place from time to time in a searchable format.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:29 AM Sanket Totewar
>> <sanket at totewar.com <mailto:sanket at totewar.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry guys for the delay in reply.
>>
>> I have some interesting perspective from some peeps
>> who've used Gmail lists and GitHub discussions.
>>
>> Can't share their names but they have all used
>> private repos (no public ones) and have had GitHub
>> organizations with teams in them.
>>
>> P1: GitHub discussions can go too deep if your team
>> is spread across the world so we started using them
>> but moved to slack and then only added decisions as
>> meeting notes in Confluence.
>>
>> P2: I've tried using them but didn't like the style
>> as it does not feel real-time. So we have calls instead.
>>
>> P3: GitHub discussions might be great for open source
>> projects but were not relevant to ours as we had
>> private meetings.
>>
>> P4: Emails are the best as it is so easy to search
>> through them but of course you need to know what you
>> are searching for. Google does a great job here.
>>
>> P5: I've not seen any open source project use GitHub
>> team discussions.
>>
>> P6: Love GitHub Discussions. They are very helpful
>> for international teams.
>>
>> P7: GitHub discussions allow inline commenting and
>> give easy access to links in GitHub PRs in addition
>> to the comments inside PRs, they form a good package.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 8:18 PM Cameron Shorter
>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sanket, are you around and noticing emails? At
>> our last meeting, we identified setting up an
>> email list as our number 2 priority.
>>
>> Jo, you were also looking into this and had some
>> ideas. How far did you get before heading on
>> leave last week?
>>
>> How should we move forward?
>>
>> Cheers, Cameron
>>
>> On 10/8/19 8:44 am, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Sanket, did your research into email list
>>> options identify anything worth passing on?
>>>
>>> Cheers, Cameron
>>>
>>> On 1/8/19 7:32 am, Sanket Totewar wrote:
>>>> Sounds good. I have meetings with my internal
>>>> support teams that have used Google Groups and
>>>> a bunch of developers that have explored GitHub
>>>> discussions so I'll share their feedback in a
>>>> few days.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 1:25 AM Jo Cook
>>>> <jo.k.cook at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:jo.k.cook at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been doing a little more digging into
>>>> GitHub Discussions.
>>>>
>>>> Good:
>>>>
>>>> * hosted and free (at the moment)
>>>> * you can align them with organisational
>>>> teams, which would mean we could have one
>>>> list for website discussion, another one
>>>> for PSC etc.
>>>> * definitely searchable, but it's a little
>>>> early to tell how manageable they are going
>>>> to be with a large number of messages.
>>>> * not needing any additional logins- people
>>>> helping with the project will need a github
>>>> login anyway so we're not asking them to
>>>> sign up to anything extra
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bad things:
>>>> * There's also no explicit statement on
>>>> archiving them, potentially they will
>>>> survive as long as the organisation does.
>>>> * They might transition to being a paid-for
>>>> function at some point
>>>>
>>>> I'm not wedded to them, but it appeals to
>>>> my sense of neatness to keep everything
>>>> together :-)
>>>>
>>>> Jo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM Cameron
>>>> Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31/7/19 7:21 pm, Jo Cook wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> Discussions- currently using an
>>>>> osgeo mailing list, requirement is
>>>>> for hosted (let’s not maintain a
>>>>> server). Github discussions- not
>>>>> clear on archiving, google groups-
>>>>> probably OK but how long are
>>>>> things archived? Let’s discuss via
>>>>> email. ACTION: SANKET to do some
>>>>> research and start email thread
>>>>> discussing requirements.
>>>>>
>>>> Sanket, expanding on what I think
>>>> requirements are:
>>>>
>>>> * For long term sustainability it is
>>>> important to keep things as simple and
>>>> low maintenance as possible.
>>>>
>>>> * We want conversations archived and
>>>> searchable (by google is ok). Eg:
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/seasonofdocs/2019-July/thread.html
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>> Technology Demystifier
>>>> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>>>>
>>>> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SeasonOfDocs mailing list
>>>> SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> <mailto:SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> http://about.me/jocook
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SeasonOfDocs mailing list
>>>> SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> <mailto:SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Cameron Shorter
>>> Technology Demystifier
>>> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>>>
>>> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Technology Demystifier
>> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>>
>> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SeasonOfDocs mailing list
>> SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org>
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier
> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>
> _______________________________________________
> SeasonOfDocs mailing list
> SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org>
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> http://about.me/jocook
>
> _______________________________________________
> SeasonOfDocs mailing list
> SeasonOfDocs at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/seasonofdocs
--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254
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