[Fundraising] Re: [OSGeo-Board] Re: [Fundraising] Re: [OSGeo-Board] Re: [Fundraising] RE: [OSGeo-Board] German OSGeo Chapter formation, bank account

Arnulf Christl (CCGIS) arnulf.christl at ccgis.de
Mon Aug 21 14:16:06 PDT 2006

On Mon, August 21, 2006 20:42, Gary Lang wrote:
> Arnulf,
> It is not part of a bias. It is an observation of what actually happened.
> They asked for help setting this up. Please pay attention to this fact -
> they did not want to do this themselves.
> If your theory on how to build OSGreo up is that we should have ignored
> their requests and just said 'Arnulf says you should just handle this
> locally', I find that puzzling.

I did for the fraction of a second wonder at whether an Autodesk and
insititutionally funded China Local Chapter is what we want. Which "we" is
that one? How much is it you or Autodesk or China? How much China self
organization did we see? I cannot trace most of the members because they
have been entered by a third and not themselves.

One of my aims for OSGeo would be to get people to sign themselves by
themselves. My aims must not be our aims (define our). Maybe I am
overdoing it but it is just a very different process to what I experience
in other open projects. To not phrase it "Arnulf thays this will not do".

Regarding that part ("Arnulf says"). Whenever I do things I do them as I
(three times I in a row). Just to make sure that I do not make the
impression that I speak for all of us: "We". Obviously I sometimes do
exactly that and hope that nobody checks whether I really asked anybody at
all. This is cheating. If you catch me cheating then please say so.

And just to make sure: I am not offended whenever people do not do what I
say. You are Free to do whatever you please, it is your decision.
Sometimes I may seem blunt but this is only out of ignorance.

> I think reality is colliding with your theory here. Perhaps some
> counterexamples would be helpful instead of repeating that there's a bias
> without demonstrating that this is so.

Does the above help to shed light on what I want to say?

Best regards,

> The practical concerns w.r.t. the transaction costs you raise are worth
> considering.
> Gary
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Arnulf Christl (CCGIS)" <arnulf.christl at ccgis.de>
> Sent: Mon 8/21/06 2:15 pm
> To: "Gary Lang" <gary.lang at autodesk.com>
> Cc: "board at board.osgeo.org" <board at board.osgeo.org>,
> "fundraising at fundraising.osgeo.org" <fundraising at fundraising.osgeo.org>,
> "discuss-de at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org"
> <discuss-de at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org>
> Subject: [Fundraising] Re: [OSGeo-Board]  Re: [Fundraising]	 Re:
> [OSGeo-Board] Re:      [Fundraising]	 RE: [OSGeo-Board] German OSGeo
> Chapter formation,      bank account
> On Mon, August 21, 2006 19:35, Gary Lang wrote:
>> Having just personally hooked us up with China and personally worked on
>> bringing up thr Japan chapter, I am not sure where this bias shows up.
>> Gary
> This way of thinking is part of the bias. Its not that you do something
> there but that they can do things by themselves. This seems to be
> incredibly hard to understand for many people.
> I assume your personal hooking OSGeo up with China has a solid commercial
> interest. Which is perfectly fine but different to the kind of bias I am
> talking of. I think that the OSGeo that I see growing is just one level
> more global than yours. We should share our visions or something like
> that.
> It is a different thing whether you dictate others what you think they
> need (and say "we need") and what they and you and I really need.
> This is funny. I did not bother a second to think about whether this
> request could be any issue at all. I am slightly stunned at the immediate
> responses. There are basically two reasons why I want to have a separate
> banking account. The first is that we need to put community money that has
> come out of the German conferences to good use. We (the FOSSGIS conference
> team) have decided to put this money into OSGeo. The second reason is that
> every time you shove money accross a border it loses value. The smaller
> the amount the less it makes sense. So the easiest thing is to set up a
> separate Euro account. If this is a big thing for OSGeo management and
> results in a costly overhead we will do it differently. We can found a
> small association with a bank account and then apply for an association
> with OSGeo. Same thing other way round. Would that be better? Either way
> up I end up on your doorstep sooner or later with some 5000 Euros sitting
> on an account waiting to be spent for some OSGeo activity. Are we going to
> make this difficult?
>> --- Original Message ---
>> From: "Arnulf Christl" <arnulf.christl at ccgis.de>
>> Sent: Mon 8/21/06 1:24 pm
>> To: "board at board.osgeo.org" <board at board.osgeo.org>
>> Cc: "fundraising at fundraising.osgeo.org"
>> <fundraising at fundraising.osgeo.org>,
>> "discuss-de at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org"
>> <discuss-de at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Fundraising]	 Re: [OSGeo-Board] Re: [Fundraising]	 RE:
>> [OSGeo-Board] German OSGeo Chapter formation, bank account
>> Gary Lang wrote:
>>> I also wonder what the impetus is. It seems like another governance
>>> issue, wherein local chapters could register their localized
>>> dissatisfaction with global decisions by funneling funds while enjoying
>>> the benefits that we provide.
>>> I can't think of a practical reason for doing this.
>> The practical reason is that Autodesk does not have to ship one set of
>> posters around the world in all languages but that all languages can
>> take care of it themselves. We need local money to pay for local
>> expenses. Else a lot simply ends up in superfluous transactions fees.
>>  > enjoying the benefits that we provide.
>> Who is "we"? Are you

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