[Board] [Live-demo] Retire MapTiler from OSGeo-Live
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Thu Feb 12 14:23:07 PST 2015
Hi Petr, OSGeo-Live team, OSGeo Board,
Is our OSGeoLive meeting, we discussed retiring of MapTiler from OSGeoLive.
CCing OSGeo Board in discussion, in case the board wish to comment.
Summary:
* MapTiler was Open Source, and was included in prior OSGeo-Live
distributions
* Petr, the author, found the Open Source business model was not working
for him, and has since moved future enhancements to a proprietary model.
* The "maptiler" brand name now points to a URL of a proprietary product.
* Petr has requested MapTiler be removed from OSGeo-Live.
* As far as I've noticed, while there has been some disappointment to
loose MapTiler as an Open Source project, we respect Petr's right to
continue development using whatever model works for him. We are now
working out how to cleanly transition.
Of note:
* We have prior OSGeo-Live releases and documentation which reference
the previous Open Source Maptiler.
* OSGeo-Live wish to retain our reputation of promoting Open Source
products, both now, and in the past.
Proposal for our imminent OSGeo-Live 8.5 release:
* OSGeoLive will add a statement to our contents page [1] stating:
"Maptiler: not included after OSGeo-Live 8.0, after project moved to
proprietary business model"
* The Maptiler Project Overview [2] will be updated to explain that
MapTiler was Open Source, but future developments were proprietary. The
Overview will reference the last Open Source version of software available.
* The Maptiler Quickstart will be removed from docs, (but still
available in subversion)
* The maptiler installer will be disabled so MapTiler will not be
distributed on OSGeo-Live.
If anyone has objections or comments, please raise them within 48 hours
(15 Feb 2015) such that we can address them before our release.
Most (not all) of the history on this conversation has been copied below.
[1] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/overview.html
[2] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/maptiler_overview.html
On 13/02/2015 4:29 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I definitely agree here with Howard.
>
> Since Maptiler has been included in OSGeoLive for 5 years now, and
> Petr has agreed to follow the OSGeoLive license for his contribution,
> there has to be some kind of lineage about this project online. It
> cannot just disappear. People would think that OSGeo endorced non-free
> software in the past, which is not acceptable in my opinion.
>
> We need an "official" public repository including the last version of
> the open source code to link to. We should then link to that in our
> documents (even if the project is removed). Cameron has already moved
> the documents in the "retired" area.
>
> I agree that the Maptiler name has to be removed from OSGeoLive in
> future versions. But, the request for removal came much after our
> official 8.5 code freeze, so I am against removing stuff from 8.5
> especially 10 days before release.
> I propose we keep the installer for 8.5 (unless Petr provides a new
> deb version with a new name).
> I also propose to remove the Maptiler documents completely for this
> release.
>
> Then, as Johan suggested we can fork Maptiler as Icetiler for the next
> OSGeoLive 9.0 release and restore the docs.
>
> Best,
> Angelos
>
> PS. I also want to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler, it is much
> appreciated.
>
> On 02/09/2015 11:46 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> First of all I would like to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler. He
>> has actually spent a lot of unpaid time to develop a tool which is
>> useful for many users.
>> Earning a living from open-source is hard - as most people who have
>> tried will be able to tell you.
>>
>> Second I would like to point out that a project that has many users
>> and little contributors is not necessarily unsuccessful. If your tool
>> is working well, it may not scratch a developers itch[1].
>>
>> Anyway, it seems that by retiring from OsGeo live you did hit many
>> developers itch, so it seems this may actually be a rebirth of the
>> project.
>>
>> I think that the request of Petr is fair: the code remains free (which
>> it should, because there can be many derived works), but he just
>> requests not to use the name and logo. This leaves room for other
>> developers to jump in and create a new version. Yesterday on IRC, I
>> proposed the name "IceTiler" as an alternative, based on the
>> rebranding done by debian for many mozilla projects [2]. Other
>> suggestions are welcome :-)
>>
>> Taking all into account I'm +1 on removing this project from OsGeo
>> live in the current form, but I think we could have "IceTiler" in a
>> next release if there is sufficient interest.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Johan
>>
>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar
>> [2]
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project
>> _______________________________________________
>> Live-demo mailing list
>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>> http://live.osgeo.org
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>> .
>>
>
>
On 9/02/2015 12:09 pm, Jody Garnett wrote:
> Trademarks is one of those issues we tend to handle off-list with
> mentor and project leadership (and/or the board if required).
>
> In this case the author and trademark owner in one in the same (and
> has a fairly clear request).
>
> My limited understanding is the board will need to care about
> trademarks in source code that has been contributed to OSGe (which is
> not a requirement of participation). I expect they will only need to
> care in the US (since that is where the organization is based) but
> that is up to legal council, IANAL etc...
>
> It is relatively common for open source projects to be renamed due to
> TM conflict. This is a service a software foundation can provide,
> apache has strict management of trademarks, eclipse does a trademark
> check prior to accepting a project into incubation etc... But it is
> not clear cut - Debian for example refuses to include firefox as that
> name is trademarked (and not "free" and reusable
> <http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3634591> ),
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 7 February 2015 at 17:03, Even Rouault <even.rouault at spatialys.com
> <mailto:even.rouault at spatialys.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> (adding incubator@ as it is both of interest I think for OSGeo-Live &
> incubator)
>
> I will not argue about this particular case, but this does raise an
> interesting question about how we should handle trademark issues
> (perhaps this
> has been discussed in the past, so sorry if I come after the battle)
>
> The OSGeo incubation application questionnaire
> http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/application.html mentions:
> "Is the code free of patents, trademarks, and do you control the
> copyright? "
>
> It does not address clearly the issue of trademark of the *name of the
> project* (it mentions just the *code*).
> I'm not sure if there should be a policy regarding ownership of
> the trademark
> of the name of a project, but at least it could be asked if there's a
> trademark on the name, and who owns it (and in which countries...)
> ? As the
> below example shows, this can have impact on the future of the
> project. But
> this is likely complex.
> - What if someone from a random country comes and says "eh this
> project
> conflicts with my trademark in Foobarland" ? Which countries
> should OSGeo care
> about ? Or perhaps this is too complex and the only real answer to
> those
> questions is when you are assigned to a court ;-)
> - And even if the trademark is owned by someone/an entity which is
> strongly
> related to the project, things can evolve over time. So shouldn't the
> trademark be transfered to OSGeo control to guarantee fairness of
> use ? But
> that would mean that OSGeo would have to pay the costs of
> registration.
>
> For the record, I did the exercice of quick searching which OSGeo
> projects are
> trademarked in France ( http://bases-marques.inpi.fr/ ) and it
> *seems* (only a
> search by a specialist in I.P would confirm it) that only QGIS and
> GeoMajas are
> (and both have E.U. wide validity). (There are unrelated matches
> for Geotools,
> Marble and OSSIM). OSGeo itself isn't trademarked. And apparently
> MapTiler
> neither.
>
> In the incubating projects, gvSIG is trademarked (E.U wide).
> Unrelated matches
> for "the zoo project" and OTB. Rasdaman is registered in Germany.
>
> Even
>
>
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > Let me clarify the situation:
> >
> > - The original MapTiler (python + wxWidgets) is discontinued and
> > unfortunately it failed as an open-source project in my eyes.
> The software
> > attracted quite a lot of end users, but no 3rd party developers.
> There was
> > not a single commit from any third-party ever to the MapTiler
> project code
> > itself, probably because the graphical utility was used mostly by
> > non-programmers. The otherwise great project stalled for some
> time. I have
> > not seen how to move it forward without any financial support,
> while not
> > being a student anymore - and it made me really sad.
> >
> > - Since 2011, I work with my team on a completely new
> implementation of an
> > efficient tiling utility, the new MapTiler usable both from the
> > command-line as well as from the graphical user interface,
> written in C++
> > and QT. It is significantly faster, merges multiple files in
> different srs,
> > handles correctly dateline crossing and world maps, tiles in
> non-mercator
> > grids, it directly produces small and optimized jpg and pngs, it is
> > compatible with OGC WMTS, contains uploader to Amazon S3 and
> Google Cloud
> > Storage, supports different layers on different zoom levels (see
> > http://goo.gl/TCrGtQ and other tutorials), and it comes with
> many other new
> > features, with installers, regular updates, support and
> maintenance. It
> > runs on Win/Lin/Mac - see http://www.maptiler.com/ for more
> information.
> > With my colleagues we are trying to do our job as good as we can.
> > It is a complete rewrite of the original utility, fixing design
> flaws and
> > implementation issues of both GDAL2Tiles and original MapTiler.
> To be able
> > to support the utility and to work on new features we ask for a
> license
> > fee.
> >
> > - There was no financial support from Google Summer of Code nor
> from OSGeo
> > on the original MapTiler.
> >
> > - Both my Google SoC in 2007 and 2008 were on the GDAL2TIles
> command-line
> > utility, lead by Howard.
> > My original GDAL2Tiles from 2007 is available at
> > http://www.klokan.cz/projects/gdal2tiles/ and the version from
> 2008 is
> > distributed together with GDAL library, with patches and some
> fixes, mostly
> > from Evan.
> > As Even pointed out - I started to work on the MapTiler during
> August 2008,
> > after the second SoC. BRGM mentioned in the code of
> GDAL2Tiles.py supported
> > improvements of GDAL2Tiles, not MapTiler project.
> >
> > - As the sole author of MapTiler and the owner of the MapTiler
> trademark I
> > would like to request complete removal of the MapTiler from the
> OSGeo
> > LiveDVD. I have prepared the existing .deb package as well as
> supplied the
> > quickstart and installation scripts to the svn about 5 years back.
> >
> > - If anybody is interested to revive my original open-source project
> > published under an open-source license, he is welcomed to do
> that - under
> > the conditions of the original license, while preserving the
> original
> > copyright notice, and under the condition his fork of the
> project is not
> > anymore called MapTiler and does not use original graphical
> elements and
> > desktop icon of the original application.
> >
> > - The existence of the two projects of the same name is
> confusing the
> > people and I want to avoid it. I hope you respect my decision.
> The old
> > MapTiler is dead, long live the MapTiler! ;-)
> >
> > - I continue to work on several other open-source projects and
> with my team
> > I keep developing, contributing and improving on OL3Cesium,
> OpenLayers V3,
> > WebGL Earth, EPSG.io, IIPImage, GDAL and other projects. See our
> github and
> > blog for details: http://www.klokantech.com/.
> > Open-source is indeed very powerful and viable on components and
> I can't
> > imagine to live without it. Still, there are situations, where
> it is simply
> > not applicable.
> >
> > I am proud to be part of OSGeo and I am keen to continue to
> contribute to
> > the community in future. I admire and honor people like Frank or
> Evan and
> > others. You have my true respect for what you do and what you have
> > achieved!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Petr Pridal, Ph.D.
> > Klokan Technologies GmbH
> >
> > P.S.
> > If anybody is interested in even more background of the evolution of
> > MapTiler you can read:
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maptiler/r9Xa8S_S4Z8/7pJoqKR1MM0J
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Cameron Shorter
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I've had a request from the MapTiler project to have it
> removed from
> > > OSGeo-Live.
> > >
> > > I've raised a ticket:
> > > https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1467
> > >
> > > I'll look after updating the docs.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cameron Shorter,
> > > Software and Data Solutions Manager
> > > LISAsoft
> > > Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
> > > 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
> > >
> > > P +61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>, W
> www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
> <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Live-demo mailing list
> > > Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org>
> > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
> > > http://live.osgeo.org
> > > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>
> --
> Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
> http://www.spatialys.com
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099
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