[Board] [geoforall-ab] IMPORTANT - feedback and vote will be needed: geo4all relationship

Thu Nov 26 05:51:24 PST 2015

Suchit, all,
I would like to express my point of view.

1) I do not think OSGeo Board wants anything apart from a clarification of
the structure of Geo4All.
2) It is up to the Geo4All advisory board to decide its structure and
communicate to OSGeo.
3) The board only asked for a clarification to better decide what will be
its policy in term of education.
4) Education committee to me is not Geo4All. Eventually Geo4All takes the
actions that EduCom didn't, but from an organization point of view to me is
clear that they are two distinct bodies.
5) MoUs are honoured, and always will be, I don't see that OSGoe don't want
to support open education and collaborations.

Ciao,
Maxi

2015-11-26 13:58 GMT+01:00 Suchith Anand <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>:

> Dear All,
>
>
> GeoforAll was officially created through various MoUs by OSGeo. OSGeo is
> the parent organisation for Geo4All  as only OSGeo  can make any MoUs with
> external organisations for Geo4All (ICA, ISPRS and more MoUs with UCGIS etc
> are in various stages).
>
>
> If OSGeo Board wants , GeoforAll  can explicitly add in the criteria that
> OSGeo software is the primary focus (it is already implicit that any
> university establishing Open Source Geospatial Labs is using OSGeo software
> anyway and promoting open data, open standards, open educational resources
> etc.) BUT we should not exclude any  Free and open source used for
> education and should welcome all who are following Open principles in
> GeoEducation. In OSGeo Education we have been using other free and open
> source software  (R etc) and including course materials etc for long time.
>
> Whichever option we take has to be as simple as possible as everyone is a
> volunteer. And i think transition of the education committee activities to
> geo4all is the most natural and easiest option   . All the Geo4All
>  infrastructure is in OSGeo (mailing lists, emails for regional chairs
> etc). Many OSGeo projects and initiatives have their own websites, logos
> etc (QGIS etc) and  Geo4All website can also be transferred to OSGeo
> infrastructure anytime .
>
> Infact, when there discussions started in the  mailing list etc , we
> arranged a meeting to discuss ideas at FOSS4G Como and Charlie Schweik
> (Chair of OSGeo Education Committee) was requested to chair this so we can
> find best solution for moving forward.  When i saw the meeting summary [1]
> on the discussions on OSGeo Education and Curriculum Committee and
> GeoForAll that  Unanimous in the room was the opinion that the two are
> really the same thing, and that the OSGeo education and curriculum
> committee page should now point to the GeoForAll pages. It clearly gave the
> message to me that we need to take action and i decided to support this
> transition.
>
> Most importantly we all need to keep in mind the efforts put in by all the
> universities and organisations and all our volunteer colleagues globally
> who worked hard to establish Open Source Geospatial Labs trusting the MoUs.
> This has to be honoured by all.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Suchith
>
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_EU_Como_2015_Preconference_meeting
> ________________________________________
> From: GeoForAll-ab [geoforall-ab-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of
> Arnulf Christl [arnulf.christl at metaspatial.net]
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 11:36 AM
> To: geoforall-ab at lists.osgeo.org; OSGeo Board
> Subject: Re: [geoforall-ab] IMPORTANT - feedback and vote will be needed:
> [Board] geo4all relationship
>
> Dear OSGeo Board,
> if OSGeo does not manage to reactivate/reinvigorate the Education
> Committee, then we will not have one. OSGeo is a do-ocracy, right? This
> is how OSGeo functions. Forcing something in place just because will
> probably not work.
>
> In my opinion we should let Geo4All go where it wants to go, otherwise
> chances are high we restrict it's potential. At the same time I am
> absolutely sure that Geo4All will continue to focus on good, solid Open
> Source software as we promote it through OSGeo. If Geo4All were
> something that emerged "outside" of OSGeo then I would absolutely push
> for joining and supporting the initiative. Does this make any sense?
>
>
> Geo4All Advisory Board,
> I would like to keep the close bounds to OSGeo - simply because it is
> the Open Source compass for geospatial Open Source and therefore the
> natural place to go to for selecting best practice technology for
> education.
>
> Wrt. to the lab name "Geo4All Partners" sounds like a good middle path.
> I would refrain from externalizing Geo4All as a separate legal entity.
> This will only eat up resources and divert energy from what we want to
> achieve. Maybe at a later stage (and with too much funding coming in)
> this may make sense, right now I do not really see the need (or funding
> or volunteers).
>
> Having responsible and thoroughly "Open Source" educated people act as
> OSGeo liaison officer totally makes sense (as suggested Venka, Helena).
>
> Which option does this best map to? Not sure, seems like 2 would make
> more sense? I do believe that option 1 and 1b look like OSGeo is trying
> to "grab a hold of" Geo4All. Instead I would like to see us "let go of
> it" and at the same time have the confidence that it will always stick
> with OSGeo's mission, because there is solid involvement from OSGeo
> folks and simply because our Open Source software is the core asset for
> the labs.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Arnulf
>
> On 18.11.2015 08:01, Suchith Anand wrote:
> > Thanks Jeff, Charlie, Venka, Jeroen for your inputs and ideas. I am sure
> > with the combined wisdom of everyone , we will find the best solution.
> > As Charlie said we can keep promoting OSGeo and all OSGeo official
> > projects and keep  partnership with educational (and research) efforts
> > with other open projects (who might one day join OSGeo). We need to keep
> > doors of collaborations open as it is key for growth.
> >
> > Building Bridges (the theme of FOSS4G Bonn) is very appropriate and also
> > good point to think for next stage (10th Anniversary) of OSGeo's growth.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Suchith
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* GeoForAll-ab [geoforall-ab-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of
> > Jeroen Ticheler [jeroen.ticheler at geocat.net]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2015 6:47 AM
> > *To:* GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [geoforall-ab] IMPORTANT - feedback and vote will be
> > needed: [Board] geo4all relationship
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I prefer option 1 as it seems to be the logical next step. However I
> > would suggest the OSGeo board to not force a big process of change onto
> > the geo4all committee. This transition could go step by step. Options 1B
> > and 2 are not optimal I think.
> > Greeting,
> > Jeroen
> >
> >
> > Op 18 nov. 2015 om 02:11 heeft Venkatesh Raghavan
> > <raghavan at media.osaka-cu.ac.jp <mailto:raghavan at media.osaka-cu.ac.jp>>
> > het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >> I prefer  Scenario 1 as it reflects more closely to the information
> >> presently available
> >> on the OSGeo Website. I think Scenario 1 is less confusion as it also
> >> clarifies the status
> >> of former Edu Committee.
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Venka
> >>
> >> On 2015/11/18 6:17, Charles Schweik wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I think I'd like to hear the opinions of others.
> >>>
> >>> I lean toward 1b and want to keep rules 'lean'. I want to promote
> OSGeo and
> >>> OSGeo official projects, but I also want to make sure we keep strong
> >>> partnership with educational (and research) efforts with other projects
> >>> like NASA WorldWind.
> >>>
> >>> But I don't want rules around organization hinder good strong open
> >>> geospatial science and education collaboration.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Charlie
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Jeff McKenna <
> jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Suchith,
> >>>>
> >>>> I actually wrote option 1b, so I can tell you that this option only
> works
> >>>> if the entire GeoForAll initiative agrees to focus on OSGeo as its
> >>>> education committee.  This document was drafted because it seems that
> >>>> GeoForAll, as great as the initiative is for education, may not
> always have
> >>>> OSGeo in their interests (as many GeoForAll members have stated
> recently,
> >>>> that they should not be forced to promote OSGeo, they should have a
> >>>> choice).  Well, this document was created because OSGeo really needs a
> >>>> committee/existing initiative to always promote OSGeo.  So option1b
> can
> >>>> only work if the entire GeoForAll initiative agrees to always promote
> >>>> OSGeo, as its education "arm" of the foundation.
> >>>>
> >>>> So before you overwhelmingly choose option 1b, please realize that
> this
> >>>> would mean that GeoForAll would be responsible for always promoting
> OSGeo.
> >>>>
> >>>> So maybe GeoForAll needs to debate what is actually its focus, is it
> >>>> OSGeo, or, is it in fact nothing to do with OSGeo, because it promotes
> >>>> "open" through many different tools and organizations.
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, I want Option 1b, but at the same time, I also want
> GeoForAll
> >>>> to realize that the OSGeo foundation needs a
> committee/group/initiative to
> >>>> always be out there promoting OSGeo.  If this is a problem, then
> Option 1b
> >>>> unfortunately will not work.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope this explanation helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> -jeff
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2015-11-17 4:34 PM, Suchith Anand wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Phillip,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, if Option 1b gets more votes, then  in this scenario Geo4All
> would
> >>>>> be required to name an officer who would liaise with the OSGeo Board
> (as
> >>>>> every other OSGeo committee does). Then my suggestion is that
> someone who
> >>>>> is an OSGeo Board member (Venka or Helena) is nominated for this
> role.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Suchith
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: Phillip Davis [pdavis at delmar.edu]
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 8:02 PM
> >>>>> To: Suchith Anand; Helena Mitasova; GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>> Subject: RE: IMPORTANT - feedback and vote will be needed: [Board]
> >>>>> geo4all relationship
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looks like 1a provides easiest implementation path and keeps
> GeoForAll
> >>>>> unique identity.  Option 1b provides more autonomy for GeoForAll,
> but the
> >>>>> requirement for an officer is somewhat problematic, since that would
> be
> >>>>> more or less permanent and might entail much footwork?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My vote is 1a.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dr. Phillip Davis
> >>>>> Director GeoAcademy (http://fossgeo.org)
> >>>>> Professor: Del Mar College Department of Computer
> >>>>> Science-Engineering-Advanced Technology
> >>>>> Program Lead: Geographic Information System & Cartography -
> Geospatial
> >>>>> Technology Program
> >>>>> 101 Baldwin, VB 153 | Corpus Christi, TX 78404
> >>>>> 361.698.1476 | 361.698.1475 | 361.698.1479 fax
> >>>>> pdavis at delmar.edu
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ALL THESE WORLDS…ARE YOURS…EXCEPT TEXAS…ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: GeoForAll-ab [mailto:geoforall-ab-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On
> >>>>> Behalf Of Suchith Anand
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 1:05 PM
> >>>>> To: Helena Mitasova; GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [geoforall-ab] IMPORTANT - feedback and vote will be
> needed:
> >>>>> [Board] geo4all relationship
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks Helena. Please all AB members provide feedback and vote on
> their
> >>>>> choice of scenario by 30th Nov 2015.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also Regional Chairs please inform your views on  Regional chairs
> being
> >>>>> constituted within the OSGeo Foundation structure if there is a
> majority
> >>>>> vote for Scenario 1? Yes/No
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Suchith
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: Helena Mitasova [hmitaso at ncsu.edu]
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 2:41 PM
> >>>>> To: GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>> Cc: Suchith Anand
> >>>>> Subject: IMPORTANT - feedback and vote will be needed: [Board]
> geo4all
> >>>>> relationship
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Suchith,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> thanks for presenting the GeoForAll OSGeo Relationship <
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoForAll_OSGeo_Relationship> document to
> >>>>> the community.
> >>>>> I noticed that the link to the actual document was somewhat burried
> in
> >>>>> the forwarded email where it could be overlooked. I am resending it
> at
> >>>>> least for the advisory board because after discussion a decision and
> vote
> >>>>> on one of the options (perhaps with some revisions) will be needed.
> >>>>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoForAll_OSGeo_Relationship
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Helena
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 7:19 AM, Suchith Anand <
> >>>>>> Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks Jody . I have added more details into the wiki and
> forwarding to
> >>>>>> Geo4All advisory Board and community.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dear Geo4All Advisory Board and Regional chairs,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Recently there had been  discussions on the future directions for
> >>>>>> Geo4All  .There were different opinions and hence we arranged a
> meeting at
> >>>>>> Como to discuss this and find a way forward. Following lot of
> discussions
> >>>>>> among our members in our mail lists  etc and the meeting at Como[1]
> that
> >>>>>> was led by Charlie Schweik ,the consensus was that OSGeo Education
> and
> >>>>>> Curriculum Committee and GeoForAll are the same and it is now
> GeoForAll:
> >>>>>> OSGeo's Education and Curriculum Effort as reflected in OSGeo
> website at
> >>>>>> http://www.osgeo.org/education . Venka has also presented this
> outcomes
> >>>>>> at FOSS4G Seoul [2]. Geo4All will continue to be inclusive and
> include all
> >>>>>> partners that OSGeo Board have MOUs with for expanding this OSGeo'
> Geo4All
> >>>>>> education initiative and warmly welcome everyone who are following
> the
> >>>>>> principles.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Geo4All initiative was started with the key aim to build up OSGeo's
> >>>>>> education aims by collaborating with like minded organisations and
> it is
> >>>>>> one of the most successful initiatives that we have undertaken.
> OSGeo Board
> >>>>>> has made separate MoUs with both ICA and ISPRS for expanding
> Geo4All and
> >>>>>> universities,SMEs, government organisations etc worldwide have
> trusted the
> >>>>>> MoUs that OSGeo provided and setup labs and joined the network , so
> it is
> >>>>>> important we provide strong continuity and focus. MoUs have to be
> respected
> >>>>>> and the momentum created need to build upon with clear direction
> and focus.
> >>>>>> It is important that proper structures are in place and steps need
> to be
> >>>>>> taken to ensure the smooth transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's
> Education and
> >>>>>> keep collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that
> OSGeo has
> >>>>>> MoU with. This will also make sure the efforts put in by lot of
> volunteers
> >>>>>> for this is build upon for the future.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Geo4All had been working hard to expand OSGeo education activities
> >>>>>> globally .Members have been running courses,training
> events,workshops
> >>>>>> using OSGeo software, MOOC programs (that benefitted thousands of
> students
> >>>>>> globally) etc have raised OSGeo education efforts globally. Geo4All
> members
> >>>>>> have been actively contributing to OSGeo Curriculum development
> effort and
> >>>>>> will continue to expand this by having more course materials in
> various
> >>>>>> OSGeo software added to the OSGeo education repository for everyone
> to make
> >>>>>> use of for their teaching and education.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We will welcome and include all partners that OSGeo Board have MOUs
> with
> >>>>>> for expanding this OSGeo' Geo4All education initiative and warmly
> welcome
> >>>>>> everyone who are following the principles. That way the OSGeo Board
> will be
> >>>>>> able to keep expanding the initiative and to make MoUs with other
> >>>>>> organisations etc as we are doing now (ICA, ISPRS) and also in
> future .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So steps need to be taken to ensure the smooth transition to
> GeoForAll
> >>>>>> as OSGeo's Education and keep collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and
> other
> >>>>>> organisations that OSGeo has MoU with. This will also make sure the
> efforts
> >>>>>> put in by lot of  volunteers for this is build upon for the future.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There are some steps that are outlined below and looking through the
> >>>>>> options - Scenario 1 seems to  be best option based on the Como
> discussions
> >>>>>> for ensure the smooth transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's Education
> and keep
> >>>>>> collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that OSGeo
> has MoU
> >>>>>> with.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In this case, the Geo4All Advisory Board would include
> representatives
> >>>>>> from our partners like ICA, ISPRS etc. Geo4All Advisory Board
> comprises of
> >>>>>> representatives from ICA, ISPRS, OSGeo and other organisations that
> join in
> >>>>>> future. As a partner in the Geo4All initiative, a Project Steering
> >>>>>> Committee (PSC) comprising of VP OSGeo Foundation (Education and
> Curriculum
> >>>>>> Project) and other representatives (e.g Regional Chairs of Geo4All)
> need to
> >>>>>> be constituted within the OSGeo Foundation. The PSC could liaise
> with
> >>>>>> Geo4All Advisory Board to evolve way and means to achieve mutual
> goals and
> >>>>>> objectives.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Charlie Schweik as VP OSGeo Foundation (Education and Curriculum
> >>>>>> Project) and other representatives (e.g Regional Chairs of
> Geo4All)  please
> >>>>>> let us know if you are happy to being  constituted within the OSGeo
> >>>>>> Foundation structure?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> May i request all AB members and Regional Chairs to also send their
> >>>>>> suggestions on this, so we can  move forward. It is important that
> proper
> >>>>>> structures are in place and steps need to be taken to ensure the
> smooth
> >>>>>> transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's Education and keep collaborating
> with
> >>>>>> ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that OSGeo has MoU with. This
> will also
> >>>>>> make sure the efforts put in by lot of  volunteers for this is
> build upon
> >>>>>> for the future.Please send your inputs before 30th Nov 2015 .Thanks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Suchith
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_EU_Como_2015_Preconference_meeting
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [2] http://www.slideshare.net/VenkateshRaghavan1/g4-a-newver2
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Board [board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of Jody
> Garnett
> >>>>>> [jody.garnett at gmail.com]
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 4:25 PM
> >>>>>> To: board at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>>> Subject: [Board] geo4all relationship
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have added an entry to our wiki for:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Revised Education Committee mandate pending clarification of
> GeoForAll
> >>>>>> OSGeo Relationship with Geo4All advisory board
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Venkatesh Raghavan and Jeff McKenna are our representatives on the
> >>>>>> GeoForAll advisory board.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you for taking taking on what is an important relationship
> for our
> >>>>>> foundation objectives.
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Jody Garnett
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the
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> >>>>>> ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/ica-osgeo-labs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Helena Mitasova
> >>>>> Professor at the Department of Marine,
> >>>>> Earth, and Atmospheric Sciences
> >>>>> and Center for Geospatial Analytics
> >>>>> North Carolina State University
> >>>>> Raleigh, NC 27695-8208
> >>>>> hmitaso at ncsu.edu
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> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GeoForAll-ab mailing list
> >>>> GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/geoforall-ab
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GeoForAll-ab mailing list
> >>> GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org
> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/geoforall-ab
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/geoforall-ab
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-- 
*Massimiliano Cannata*

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica

Istituto scienze della Terra

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09

massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch

*www.supsi.ch/ist <http://www.supsi.ch/ist>*
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