[OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

[Traian Stanev]

However, they (the US govt.) don’t even need a specific legal provision to spy on data that is hosted outside the US, and they’ve been doing that since forever…

;-)



From: discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Richard Desrochers
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:34 PM
To: rkgeorge at cadmaps.com; OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

One thing to consider using a cloud approach with Amazon is the license agreement concerning your data.
Under the Patriot Act in the US all data hosted in the US could be made available to the US government.

Not all corporations are ready to live with that.

Richard

2009/5/30 Randy George <rkgeorge at cadmaps.com<mailto:rkgeorge at cadmaps.com>>
Cloud options are looking interesting.

http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/  Windows, Linux, Solaris options

I imagine ESRI license entanglement with virtual servers could be a problem. But no problem at all with Open Source GIS stacks. No license to get tangled with load balancing and auto scaling where servers come and go as needed. Mostly I've seen small business interest since they tend to take overhead costs more seriously.

It might be useful to include a Cloud based server solution addendum, because that would be less optimal for an ESRI vendor and could look good compared to in-house hardware.

Unfortunately, medium and large organizations seem to have budget allocations already in place for the big ticket approach. But then in this economy even that could be changing.

AWS now includes Load Balancing and Auto Scaling options as well as S3 Backup, multiple offsite elastic block store duplication, edge cache, and elastic IP.
http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2009/05/17/monitoring-auto-scaling-elastic-load-balancing/

And for the real bleeding edge http://aws.amazon.com/elasticmapreduce/
(Not a selling point to small, medium, or large organizations, unless academically oriented :-)

rkgeorge

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Jason Birch
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:49 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

I think that it's generally less fear of the unknown or job security than it is the cost of adding complexity to what is often an already over-extended support load.  In many cases it just makes sense to spend $1000 for a server OS that doesn't require additional training, is easy to get qualified techs for, and "just works" with the existing systems.  It doesn't matter how easy Linux is; it's one more thing to keep track of and one more thing to go wrong.

If you want to "win" the open source battle at small organisations that don't already have OS operating system tendencies, focus on the application level where you can make a strong business case on a feature-by-feature level, and with additional arguments about truly open data being more sustainable and less risky.  Personally I think that an "open source or bust" attitude is not very pragmatic.  "Sell" open source software where it is the best tool for the job, but pick your battles.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Mandel
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 4:25 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

That would be fear of the unknown(non gui) and job security at work.
Wouldn't want someone else in the org who knows more about running servers.
Maybe you can get them to throw a bone to demo something on a virtual machine hosted elsewhere(Amazon) just to show how easy it is.

Welcome to the land of small to medium government agencies, etc.
The best thing here is showing examples from equivalent groups, of which there are plenty online now.

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Richard Desrochers
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