[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Privacy Policy: [was FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o]
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Thu Dec 17 14:28:01 PST 2015
Hi Maxi,
I love the constructive research that you have started here.
Email privacy was not as topical when foss4g email lists started getting
collected, and tracing technologies such as mail chimp were as
assessable as mail chimp is now. So we are right to retrospectively
develop our policy in this area.
If you are up for it, I suggest following a similar process to what we
did for getting the OSGeo Code of Conduct in place.
1. Research best practice policies. Find one that meets OSGeo community
requirements (ideally addressing the majority of the ideas on this email
thread)
2. Ideally find something that has been adopted and maintained as best
practice among many organisations. (This is the Open Source Way).
3. Reference it, copy it verbatim, tweak it, or collate with other
sources, (possibly into a wiki page)
4. Propose to OSGeo community for adoption. Collate feedback, tweak.
5. Have OSGeo adopt the policy.
Warm regards Cameron
On 18/12/2015 4:26 am, Daniel Kastl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wanted to share some thoughts, because I don't want that Maxi's
> concerns are buried under lots +1's, that "we are just doing our best
> for a successful FOSS4G". Maybe Maxi's initial email was a bit strong
> and contained the "LocationTech" keyword ;-)
> I don't think anyone (and for sure not Maxi) wants FOSS4G or OSGeo not
> to be successful, and nobody is against marketing.
>
> However doing something with good intent doesn't mean, that it's
> right, right?
> If there is a privacy policy, we need to respect it and handle
> personal data (like email addresses) accordingly. If there is no
> privacy policy, we probably should have one, because there are at
> least a few countries I know, where not being able to opt-out or
> receiving unwanted emails can become a legal issue quickly (and cost
> money).
>
> I remember a few months ago the discussion about Code of Conduct,
> where some people thought, we don't need that, because we're
> well-educated and friendly people, respecting each other, etc.. A code
> of conduct wasn't something I cared about that time, because maybe
> it's not common in countries where I live. But I learned, that it's an
> important document for North American countries. And I think the
> privacy topic is a widely discussed issue in European countries, and
> we have some lessons learned about services/organizations trying to
> track us.
> So that's maybe the reason, why some are not so happy to click an
> encrypted link with tracking ID (and whatever else). While I think you
> already get tracked, when you open the email and the transparent image
> gets loaded.
> Speaking as a Japanese citizen, it's even seen as bad practice here to
> sent HTML emails, so almost every commercial email is text only with
> beautiful ASCII art and is really hard to look at.
>
> While reading this thread I had the following questions actually:
> - Is the collected database of email addresses available on request
> for every local chapter?
> - If a local chapter passes it to some third party organization (in
> this case LocationTech, but replace it with any other name), what
> happens with these addresses later? Are they now merged with the
> "LocationTech Tour" database or the whole Eclipse address pool, etc.?
> - If I didn't open my email, because I'm not from North America, will
> I be removed from the database and future announcements?
>
> I think most email addresses collected from further events were for
> registration purpose. There is no way to register without giving OSGeo
> an email address.
> And even if we won't harm anyone, we didn't ask those people, if they
> would like to opt-in for a newsletter-like service.
> So I find it somehow OK (gray-zone) to use the existing address
> collection for marketing future global FOSS4G events (it's only once a
> year), but you need to understand that FOSS4G NA is a regional event,
> and that the emails probably haven't been filtered by region. If we
> continue this practice, will then every local FOSS4G be able to spread
> the word in the name of OSGeo using a collected address list of the
> past 10 years?
>
> Personally I think, that as a community we can do much better
> marketing than using MailChimp.
> Maybe it's a good idea to add an opt-in form to FOSS4G registrations,
> where people can sign up for event announcements, even with regional
> preferences eventually?
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>
>
>
> On 18/12/15 01:09, Steven Feldman wrote:
>> +1,000,000 to what Paul has said
>>
>> I also passed the FOSS4G 2013 list (which included names for 2011 and
>> previous FOSSS4Gs) to the 2014 team in the spirit of fraternal
>> support to future FOSS4Gs, I believe that was the right thing to do
>> even though we neglected to have specific opt in/out option. No doubt
>> they passed the extended list to 2015 and they have in turn shared
>> with 2016. This is good not bad.
>>
>> We need to separate the animus towards LT from the apparent horror at
>> the use of a ‘commercial’ service like MailChimp. Those of us who
>> earn our living from Open Source Geo need to promote Open Source Geo
>> and that means outreach to people who may not be followers of our
>> mailing lists, so we need other channels. e-mail marketing is an
>> established way of reaching potential FOSS4G participants, it is not
>> evil, it probably isn’t spam (even if you haven’t opted in) as long
>> as you provide an immediate opt out from further mail (which
>> MailChimp does really well).
>>
>> If LT are willing to allow us access to their large contact list,
>> surely that is something we should say thank you for not complain
>> about? We might want to ask ourselves why their list is so much
>> larger than ours? We have a list of several thousand accumulated from
>> previous FOSS4Gs, using MailChimp enables us to clean that list down
>> to interested participants very efficiently by providing a simple opt
>> out.
>>
>> There is no reason why we should not continue to maintain a growing
>> list of people who have attended, sponsored or expressed interest in
>> OSGeo/FOSS4G. The norm should be that you are opted in by default as
>> a result of past interest but every mail provides the option to opt out.
>>
>> Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely worthwhile. To do that
>> you need to be a bit pushy while finding the right balance.
>>
>> Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers and marketeers,
>> not moan at them
>>
>> Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft was way more ranty)
>>
>> Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday season whatever your faith
>> ______
>> Steven
On 18/12/2015 6:28 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
> Thanks for the productive discussion - some of those privacy policies
> seem to be website specific ( rather than for an organization as a
> whole ).
>
> We just are rebooting the webcom so the timing is good for a privacy
> discussion. It may be easier to start here and then branch out to
> project / committee email lists and a foundation wide policy.
>
> We have a different understanding of foss4g Maxi.
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 4:08 AM Massimiliano Cannata
> <massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch <mailto:massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch>>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Gert, deal all,
> after a few days of discussion I would like to sum up some
> considerations to re-focus to subject of my first e-mail and that
> in my opinion should led OSGeo foundation to at least one or two
> argument for discussion.
>
> 1- Some FOSS4G events made use of "aggressive" marketing
> strategies using mailing lists where the users didn't explicitly
> agree in being notified.
>
> 2- There are laws on privacy protection which are different for
> different countries/region (this is explained for example at this
> resource, but I'm not a loyer:
> http://www.lsoft.com/resources/optinlaws.asp )
>
> 3- OSGeo act globally and should be respectful as much as possible
> of all the existing rules
>
> 4- FOSS4G is the OSGeo's label of their Free and Open Source
> Software For Geospatial conferences
>
>
> Said that each person or organization is responsible for its acts
> (and is free to behave as he/she/it prefer), I would like that
> OSGeo - and FOSS4G that is with no doubt recognized as an OSGeo
> event - act in respect of a well defined privacy protection policy
> with is
> as much protective of privacy as possible.
>
> Example of Privacy Policy can be found for example in:
> - Apache foundation
> (http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/privacy.html)
> - Eclipse foundation (https://eclipse.org/legal/privacy.php)
> - Debian (http://www.debianit.com/privacy-policy/)
> - Software Freedom Conservancy
> (https://sfconservancy.org/privacy-policy/)
> - OpenStack (https://www.openstack.org/privacy/)
>
>
> From a short reading all of them seems state that they do not pass
> information to third parties and do not use these information for
> sending newsletter unless explicitly agreed.
>
>
>
> So, if I raised you attention to this hot topic and in the future
> people will be more sensitive and respectful of privacy when they
> act in the name of FOSS4G or OSGeo I'm 1000% happy and accept any
> blame on me.
>
>
> Best regard,
> Maxi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-12-15 23:38 GMT+01:00 Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting
> OSGeo.nl <gert-jan at osgeo.nl <mailto:gert-jan at osgeo.nl>>:
>
> First: I took the opportunity to change the subject of this
> thread to a less shouting version (CAPS LOCK and spam live
> side-by-side on my email-irritation-scale)
>
> Second: Funny to see how the use of two different channels
> (mailing list vs. MailChimp) kind of reflect the different
> approaches to reach the -more of less- same goal.
>
> Any expanding organisation / movement / community comes to a
> point where the classical channels (like a mailing list) reach
> their limits,
>
> and "new" marketing (yuch! marketing==ugly & bad!) channels &
> methods may help to stretch beyond borders. Which comes at a
> cost (as Maxi tries to tell, I guess).
>
> Food for thought for the Board face2face meeting in January
> (and for the entire community) to determine
>
> - what our goals are
>
> - what our values are
>
> - and how these two compare to each other.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Gert-Jan
>
> *Van:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] *Namens
> *Rob Emanuele
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 15 december 2015 21:51
> *Aan:* David Bianco
> *CC:* OSGeo Discussions
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS
> WATCHING YOU :-o
>
> Hey David,
>
> The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G
> NA attendees, people opting in in other ways, and from lists
> that were given by members of this and last year's committee.
> If we're spamming people who didn't opt in, it is not
> intentional and apologies for the spam (the world certainly
> doesn't need more spam). We'll take a look at the list moving
> forward to try to prevent from sending emails to anyone who
> didn't opt in.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco
> <me at davidbianco.net> wrote:
>
> I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your
> list without a user's authorization.
>
> http://mailchimp.com/legal/acceptable_use/
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:
>
> Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to
> OSGeo-Discuss, I just posted it.
>
> There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing
> list, sorry for the spam!
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata
> <massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch> wrote:
>
> Just a funny note...
>
> Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!!
> WOW!!!!!)
>
> and.....
>
> that all the link on the received e-mail are connected
> with my user_id (I have one????? Yes)
>
> and....
>
> that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!)
>
> and...
>
> that I have been added to a list that i'm not
> subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)
>
> But...
>
> Where did they get my e-mail from?
>
> why thy didn't simply post the news to the
> discussion-osgeo list?
>
> what do they want to track?
>
> *If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced
> here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/*
>
> #SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY
>
> Best,
>
> Maxi
>
> --
>
> *Massimiliano Cannata*
>
> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
>
> Responsabile settore Geomatica
>
> Istituto scienze della Terra
>
> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
>
> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
>
> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio
>
> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
> <tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014>
>
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
> <tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009>
>
> massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch
>
> _www.supsi.ch/ist_
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> --
> *Massimiliano Cannata*
>
> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
>
> Responsabile settore Geomatica
>
>
> Istituto scienze della Terra
>
> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
>
> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
>
> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio
>
> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
>
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
>
> massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch
>
> _www.supsi.ch/ist <http://www.supsi.ch/ist>_
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, Wwww.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099
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