[OSGeo-Discuss] Changes (and proposed changes) regarding the Code of Conduct

[Jonathan Moules]

Hi Ben,

I think the counterpoint to this is highlighting that most western 
justice systems are based around intent (i.e. good-faith or bad-faith, 
or "mens rea"). For example. the difference between murder and 
homicide/manslaughter is solely intent and it is up to the system itself 
to determine that intent.

As the famous old quote goes:

"Better that 10 guilty men go free than to convict a single innocent 
man" - William Blackstone

Personally I'm not a fan of the Covenant; it has big subjective 
loopholes and components that be used to retroactively change the rules.

@Maria - a concern with having this conversation on the CoC list is that 
that's a self-selecting group and there's a non-zero chance it can end 
up as an echo chamber. How many of the folks who have put forth an 
opinion in this thread on /discuss are also on /CoC for instance?

Cheers,
Jonathan


On 2018-12-12 01:32, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> Rather than guilty until proven innocent, I think the covenant 
> proposes a neutral and evidence-based approach. Mandating good faith 
> as a starting point unfortunately enables bullies who provoke a 
> response and then hide behind "X can't take a joke" or other 
> minimisation to further harm their victim. I have not seen this in 
> OSGeo but I have seen it in several cases elsewhere and I hope we will 
> all be sufficiently alert to prevent it. I think that a proportionate 
> and sensitive response will encourage consideration of the feelings of 
> others without harming our collegial atmosphere.
>
> As another cross-cultural example, several of our members have given 
> names that are masculine in Italian but feminine in English, resulting 
> in their occasional misgendering on mailing lists and pull requests. 
> While I found this amusing and assumed that it was unintentional, I 
> also knew that some might find such misgendering insulting or hurtful 
> and in any case it was not a good precedent, so I took the time to 
> gently point out the mistake in private (IIRC). In each case, the 
> mistake was not repeated. We can all take little actions that 
> contribute to a welcoming environment.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ben.
>
> On 11/12/2018 13:44, Jonathan Moules wrote:
>> Hi Maria,
>>
>> Just a thought, but I'm not sure getting rid of the assumption of 
>> good faith is a good idea. To do so would be basically assuming 
>> people are guilty until proven innocent which runs counter to how 
>> these things should work.
>>
>> To use a personal anecdote, many years ago I had a black flatmate who 
>> I was joking around with and I made a comment that it turns out is a 
>> negative racial epithet. Being young and unworldly, I didn't know 
>> that at the time and certainly didn't mean it in that context, it 
>> also has a perfectly innocent context - the only one I'd ever been 
>> exposed to - which is how I was using it.
>>
>> Now, reading your thebias.com link, I can see that the author there 
>> would suggest I be pilloried for what was an honest mistake. They'd 
>> say I was being "careless" or "ignorant" and stepping on their toes. 
>> But I don't think either is fair because it's not reasonable to 
>> expect people to know everything that could offend everyone, 
>> especially somewhere as multicultural as the internet.
>>
>> For example, consider this symbol: 👍a simple thumbs-up emoticon 
>> that's commonly used to signify "it's all good" and "thanks". Well, 
>> it turns out that it's "an obscene insult" in some cultures! I didn't 
>> know that until a few seconds ago when I went searching for a simple 
>> example.
>>
>> I have learnt over the years from experiences in both directions that 
>> it's best to always assume good faith if possible. Humans may be the 
>> species with the most complex communication on the planet, but that 
>> doesn't mean we don't fail often.
>>
>> @Ben - Thanks for sharing World Human Rights day. I'm a long time fan 
>> of the UNDHR!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> On 2018-12-09 12:49, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>>> Dear OSGeo community,
>>>
>>> As you may already know, I have been working for the last months in 
>>> improving our community procedures[1] to make it a safer space. 
>>> Recent events in the community have shown that we have a lot of work 
>>> ahead.
>>>
>>> We all, as OSGeo, must remove the recent bullying and campaigning 
>>> mentality that is unfortunately gradually become a part of our 
>>> culture. Disclosing private data or hinting threats is not helpful 
>>> and can only make our community less comfortable for everyone. We 
>>> will work on improving actions on harmful behavior.
>>>
>>> This has been a slow task, but there are some actions taking place:
>>>
>>> CoC committee members have become inactive. I volunteered to pick up 
>>> the task and lead a new CoC committee. Right now I am the only CoC 
>>> member, but I am looking for more volunteers. If only, to make sure 
>>> that if I am involved in any CoC incident, someone else can take 
>>> care of it properly as mediator.
>>>
>>> I want to change also the way incidents and violations of the CoC 
>>> are reported. I noticed there are reports being done on person and 
>>> on private email, but never through the official channels (which 
>>> right now is a mailing list).To improve this, I will ask the SAC to 
>>> replace the mailing list with an alias and a form on the website. 
>>> Also, there will be a public list of who receives those emails so 
>>> people reporting incidents will have a clear understanding of who is 
>>> receiving the information and decide to contact privately only a 
>>> subset of the team. Replacing the mailing list by an alias that 
>>> sends the data directly to the inbox of the CoC team is important, 
>>> as sometimes incidents are not reported just because the person 
>>> reporting is scared to leave a trace of the report or is not sure 
>>> who will be reading the report.
>>>
>>> Another action I am going to propose is a change on the CoC itself. 
>>> Our community has grown a lot both in diversity and in numbers, and 
>>> we need a strict code of conduct that makes sure marginalized or 
>>> harrased people is always covered by it. We can't rely anymore on 
>>> just common sense and good faith.
>>>
>>> Once the new board is settled, I am going to propose to change the 
>>> current CoC for another like the Contributor Covenant[2]. As it is a 
>>> CoC shared by many communities, this has the advantage of receiving 
>>> the upgrades and experience from other communities. As you can see, 
>>> it fixes some of the bugs from our CoC, like the assuming good 
>>> intent and good faith[3] part that made the current CoC useless on 
>>> most cases. I will propose to add some foreword to adapt to 
>>> specifities for our community, but in my opinion, the latest version 
>>> of the Contributor Covenant is easy to read, simple, and cover most 
>>> of what we need. My hope is that this new CoC can be adapted to all 
>>> OSGeo Projects and Events that don't already have a CoC, so we have 
>>> full OSGeo universe covered by default.
>>>
>>> I hope this actions will prove useful in the medium term and we 
>>> don't have to see more members leaving the community. We should 
>>> remember to be empathic and kind. We are all seeking the same goals 
>>> and we should encourage cooperation, not hinder each other. I know 
>>> that developer communities are very used to these bad behaviours, 
>>> but I'm confident we can grow better.
>>>
>>> Have a nice day!
>>> María.
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2018-August/011640.html
>>> [2] https://www.contributor-covenant.org/
>>> [3] 
>>> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/ 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
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