[OSGeo-Edu] Fwd: [OSGeo-Discuss] Introdution tutorials

Tue Feb 27 10:50:44 EST 2007

On 2/26/07, Pericles S. Nacionales <naci0002 at umn.edu> wrote:
> On Monday 26 February 2007 09:37, P Kishor wrote:
> > On 2/26/07, Pericles S. Nacionales <naci0002 at umn.edu> wrote:
> > > Puneet,
> > >
> > > I just read Ned's e-mail.  I also read Markus's reply just now which
> > > captures what I wanted to say.  So, what do you say about an IRC meeting?
> >
> > Sounds like a plan. Except for this Friday morning, I am available all
> > other days at 8am in United States CST, or UTC -6. Let me know what
> > works for the majority.
> >
> > To keep the IRC meeting focused, let's discuss this issue of loading
> > vs. linking material and move the "OSGeo branding" agenda forward. Of
> > course, if you have other ideas to discuss, just bring them to the
> > table.
> >
> > Many thanks,
>
> Hmm, would 8:00AM CST (2:00PM GMT) work for our friends across the two big
> ponds?  I could also make any weekday at this time but I'd like to hear from
> others.  This is a particularly difficult time for those in the western US...
>
> How does Thursday, 1 March,  at 2:00PM GMT (9:00AM EST, 6:00PST) work for
> others?  Here's a link to local times around the world:
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=1&year=2007&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
>

<note about IRC>
Fixing a time for IRC meetings has always been a problem, given that
there are members on the West coast of NA and in Japan. 8am had worked
for us a few times, but anytime would be difficult for someone or the
other. Slowly we evolved to discussing issues on the list. I don't
know about others, but I personally find IRC chats to be very chaotic.
I can respect that they work for others, but the list is simply a
better medium to compose thoughtful responses even if it lacks the
immediacy of IRC.

We haven't heard from anyone else, nevertheless, I am available and
will come on the IRC on Thurs, Mar 1.
</note about IRC>

The item on the agenda is not contentious actually. It is pretty
straightforward. Gary Watry asked on the main OSGeo list (and I quote)
--

> 1. Is the loading of tutorials on the osgeo website still the
> concept or is just linking to other sites the plan?
>
> 2. how and where does someone go about doing this?

To which, Tyler replied (I am quoting an excerpt) --

> I'd suggest that the Edu. group start an educational library with
> public domain downloads available and put yours in there.
..
> Anyone from the Web Committee, including myself, can help get
> the files online for you when ready.

First, Tyler answered the first part of the 1st question that Gary
asked, and the 2nd question as it relates to the first part. In that,
if someone wants to host their material on the OSGeo website, they can
do so in a library with "public domain" dowloads, and someone can
readily assist them with that task. Regarding the 2nd part of the 1st
question, anyone with a wiki login can create a link to material
hosted on their own server. In fact, anyone with a wiki login can even
categorize and arrange the links into some logical arrangement.

My response with regards to hosting was that it is just too
problematic given the reasons I outlined. Licensing itself is a major
roadblock. Determining whether or not a package is in "public domain"
becomes an onerous responsibility -- who will do that? What if the
person who created the material and wants OSGeo to host it but is not
willing to put it in "public domain"? In fact, we've had this
discussion in the past about licensing.

My strong belief is that linking is the easiest, quickest, and so many
benefits accrue from doing that. If the links list becomes chaotic, as
Ned suggested, it is possible to loosely categorize them. In my view,
something simple, perhaps doing so by licenses -- "completely free aka
public domain" and "free but no commercial use" might be enough
categories. I will be happy to do this categorization.

I also believe that uploading should be made available to those who
many not have the resources to host their own material. However, for
that, OSGeo has to display a clear stance on what are willing to host,
mainly with regards to relevance, appropriateness, quality standards,
and licensing. Either that, or a disclaimer about the hosted contents
should be provided. There are, however, so many issues with hosting
content that it really makes me shudder. What if, some third party's
hosted binary content contains a virus and destroys the user's
computer? Whose liability is that? In my view, OSGeo should host only
the content that it produces. By "it" I mean a set of OSGeo members
collaborating and producing a package in a public process open to all
for participation, vetted properly, and given an OSGeo quality
assurance badge.

I am happy to be educated otherwise, and welcome others' thoughts.

> > > On Monday 26 February 2007 09:16, P Kishor wrote:
> > > > On 2/26/07, Pericles S. Nacionales <naci0002 at umn.edu> wrote:
> > > > > If the Education Committe doesn't want to address this, I will
> > > > > recommend that the Web Committee take it on.  I was really hoping we
> > > > > (the Education Committee) would take a little bit of time to discuss
> > > > > things like this. Perhaps we need another IRC meeting...
> > > >
> > > > Hi Perry,
> > > >
> > > > We did discuss it, and the couple of us who commented (Ned and myself)
> > > > feel that putting links on the wiki is the quickest (see reasoning in
> > > > the included emails below). Perhaps you missed those emails, or
> > > > perhaps you have other ideas. If so, please do tell us your thoughts
> > > > and we will gladly discuss them. The quicker a clear guidance is out
> > > > the best it is for those producing tutorials and wanting to share
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Puneet.
> > > >
> > > > > On Saturday 24 February 2007 09:48, P Kishor wrote:
> > > > > > http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Education_and_Curriculum_Committee
> > > > > > section 4 is for "Existing open educational geospatial materials".
> > > > > > Adding a link there would be the easiest. See below for my
> > > > > > reasoning --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2/24/07, Markus Neteler <neteler.osgeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi eduCom,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > for those not following the main discuss list, here a relevant
> > > > > > > FWD. I think that we (eduCom) should take care of this request.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > markus
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > From: Tyler Mitchell <tylermitchell at shaw.ca>
> > > > > > > Date: Feb 22, 2007 12:14 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Introdution tutorials
> > > > > > > To: OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org>, Gary Watry
> > > > > > > <watry at coaps.fsu.edu>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 21-Feb-07, at 3:52 AM, watry at steam.coaps.fsu.edu wrote:
> > > > > > > > If you go to http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/gis and along the bottom
> > > > > > > > of the page are three tutorials. Quantum GIS, uDig, MapWindows.
> > > > > > > > We are getting ready to produce OpenJump, OSSIM, and one more
> > > > > > > > package this spring.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My Question is that at one point in the past, It was discussed
> > > > > > > > about the possibility to place these on the OSGEO Website.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So?
> > > > > > > > 1. Is the loading of tutorials on the osgeo website still the
> > > > > > > > concept or is just linking to other sites the plan?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my opinion linking would be preferred. Why?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One, it is the quickest. If you want to add something you made, you
> > > > > > don't have to wait for anyone to help you load it. You just go,
> > > > > > edit the wiki, add the link to your own material, and you are done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Two, it keeps the freshest version always available to the public.
> > > > > > Otherwise you would have to keep syncing the one you have loaded on
> > > > > > the OSGeo website with the one you are probably continually
> > > > > > developing in your lab or office.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Three, by hosting it on your own server, other benefits accrue. For
> > > > > > example, you can keep track of how many folks are downloading your
> > > > > > tutorial by looking at your logs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And, finally, four, you don't get into the hassle of figuring the
> > > > > > most suitable license, or being in conformance with OSGeo's
> > > > > > processes and procedures. Just state the license along with the
> > > > > > link, and you are good to go.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For example --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - GITTA - Geographic Information Technology Training Alliance with
> > > > > > material under Creative Commons license
> > > > > > - my great tutorial under public domain
> > > > > > - my even better tutorial under capitalist version 2 license
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only two reasons I can think of why you would want to load a
> > > > > > copy on OSGeo's servers are: one, you don't have the server
> > > > > > resources available to host something; and two, you are creating a
> > > > > > package in colllaboration with others on OSGeo, so wiki is the best
> > > > > > method to do so.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If these apply, definitely pursue the route suggested by Tyler
> > > > > > below, but be aware of the limitations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. how and where does someone go about doing this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This hasn't been discussed for a while, but if the Education
> > > > > > > Committee wants to host the files on osgeo.org, that's no
> > > > > > > problem. I'd suggest that the Edu. group start an educational
> > > > > > > library with public domain downloads available and put yours in
> > > > > > > there.  We have a similar library (under development) for
> > > > > > > promotional material and presentations.  Having a branch of it
> > > > > > > for education would make a lot of sense.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyone from the Web Committee, including myself, can help get the
> > > > > > > files online for you when ready.
> > > > >

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/
Nelson Inst. for Env. Studies, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/education/
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