[GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-CVS] michael: grass6/lib/init gis_set.tcl, 1.24, 1.25

[Markus Neteler]

Michael, all,

On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 01:21:05PM -0700, Michael Barton wrote:
> Markus,
> 
> I'm happy to see suggestions. Here is my rational for wording changes. Maybe
> there can be better wording than my quick fix.
> 
> I'm trying to think of a user who knows something about GIS and is opening
> GRASS for the first time. Before she or he can do anything--even start the
> program--they have to choose a "database", "location", and "mapset".
> 
> But what is a database? Of course everyone knows that a database is an
> attribute table or related set of attribute tables defined in a data
> dictionary. Except that's not what a GRASS database is. It is simply the
> directory/folder where "locations" are stored.
> 
> But what is a location? Of course that is a place, maybe where your study
> area is located. But how do you select that? Except in GRASS, a "location"
> is really a folder with definitions of the projection (including 'geographic
> projections' like latlon), coordinate system, and optionally the extents
> defining a particular part of the world. More people would probably
> understand what we mean if we ask them to choose the projection/coordinate
> system than to choose a "location".

I always understood (and also teach it like that) that a "location"
is a project - but not a projection.

"project location" would be even ok but "projection location" I don't
really agree with. Sure, I am not a native speaker.


> Then you have to select a "mapset". But what is a mapset. In GRASS, that's
> where your GIS files are stored--which is what this hypothetical new user
> has really wanted to get at all along.

A mapset is a set of maps...
 
> Every time I try to explain how to start GRASS, I have to explain what a
> "database", "location", and "mapset" is before the person can even get
> started working with the program.

Right. But that's not so bad because people have to even know what's
a projection to create a new location or explicitely create a 
non-projected location (xy, latlong).

> Any GIS will have some jargon that a
> person will  have to get through (e.g., 'theme' instead of layer). But it
> would be nice to not have to hit someone with GRASS-specific jargon before
> they even get the program opened. Of course you can press the help button,
> but many people would just like to start the program before doing anything
> else.

I don't think that GRASS is full of jargon.

> So I was trying to build in some translations of GRASS jargon to help
> someone get started. I dropped "GIS Database" because it's not used much.
> But location and mapset are used a lot. Of course this made for some awkward
> phraseology, as you noticed.  I really did mean "projection location"
> instead of project location.

Yes, you have inverted my "project location" fix :-)

 
> Maybe "Select an existing 'location' (projection/coordinate system) and GIS
> Mapset..."???
> 
> GIS Mapset doesn't sound too awkward to me. But maybe to others?
> 
> Suggestions?

I just want to avoid that we break with the existing wealth of documentation
and also a bit with tradition (we have many long term users who even took a
while to switch to GRASS 5 or GRASS 6). It is already quite hard to keep
presentations reasonably updated, but for tutorials (there are many) and books
it is even worse.

Well, let's hear the others. It's worth to get this discussed.
 

Markus

> > From: Markus Neteler <neteler at itc.it>
> > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:35:56 +0200
> > To: <grass-dev at grass.itc.it>
> > Subject: [GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-CVS] michael: grass6/lib/init gis_set.tcl,
> > 1.24, 1.25
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > a few questions:
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 07:28:42PM +0200, grass at intevation.de wrote:
> >> Author: michael
> >> 
> >> Update of /grassrepository/grass6/lib/init
> >> In directory doto:/tmp/cvs-serv30054
> >> 
> >> Modified Files:
> >> gis_set.tcl 
> >> Log Message:
> >> update exec and eval exec statements to properly parse arguments
> >> 
> >> Index: gis_set.tcl
> >> ===================================================================
> >> RCS file: /grassrepository/grass6/lib/init/gis_set.tcl,v
> >> retrieving revision 1.24
> >> retrieving revision 1.25
> >> diff -u -d -r1.24 -r1.25
> >> --- gis_set.tcl 24 Jun 2006 19:33:59 -0000 1.24
> >> +++ gis_set.tcl 17 Jul 2006 17:28:40 -0000 1.25
> >> @@ -312,10 +312,10 @@
> >>      pack $introtitle -side top
> >>  
> >>      .frame0.intro.msg tag configure all -justify center
> >> -    .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Welcome to GRASS GIS Version
> >> $GRASSVERSION\n"]
> >> +    .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Welcome to GRASS GIS version
> >> $GRASSVERSION\n"]
> >>      .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "The world's leading open source
> >> GIS\n\n"]
> >> -    .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Select an existing project location
> >> and mapset\n"]
> >> -    .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "or define a new project
> >> location\n"]
> >> +    .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Select an existing projection
> >> location and GIS mapset\n"]
> > 
> > ... what does "existing projection location" mean?
> > I only know "existing project location". The change adds confusion in my
> > opinion.
> > If projected is meant, it is not right since latlong (usually) and xy (always)
> > are
> > unprojected.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> +    .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "or define a new projection
> >> location\n"]
> > 
> > ...also here.
> > 
> >>      .frame0.intro.msg tag add all 1.0 end
> >>      .frame0.intro.msg configure -state disabled
> >>  
> >> @@ -338,7 +338,7 @@
> >>      label .frame0.frameDB.left.label \
> >> -anchor {n} \
> >> -justify right \
> >> -     -text [G_msg "Path to location:    \n(GRASS Database)"]
> >> +     -text [G_msg "Path to location : "]
> > 
> > "GRASS Database" is a widely used term in the GRASS literature,
> > but sure if it should be removed.
> > 
> > 
> >>      entry .frame0.frameDB.mid.entry \
> >> -relief {sunken} \
> >> @@ -408,7 +408,7 @@
> >>  
> >>      label .frame0.frameMS.label \
> >> -anchor {w} \
> >> -     -text [G_msg "Accessible Mapsets"]
> >> +     -text [G_msg "(Accessible) GIS Mapsets"]
> > 
> > ... this re-reverted the last fix...
> > The () do not add information in my opionion.
> > 
> > 
> >>      listbox .frame0.frameMS.listbox \
> >> -relief {sunken} \
> >> @@ -460,7 +460,7 @@
> >>  
> >>      label .frame0.frameNMS.first.label \
> >> -anchor {n} \
> >> -     -text [G_msg "Create new mapset\nin selected location"]
> >> +     -text [G_msg "Create new GIS mapset\nin currrent location"]
> > 
> > I am also not sure of that. In the beginning nothing is selected,
> > so there is no currrent location.
> >   
> >>      entry .frame0.frameNMS.second.entry \
> >> -relief {sunken} \
> >> @@ -495,7 +495,7 @@
> >>  
> >>      label .frame0.frameNMS.fourth.label \
> >> -anchor {n} \
> >> -     -text [G_msg "\nDefine new location by:"]
> >> +     -text [G_msg "Define new projection location"]
> > 
> > ... again confusing (for me).
> > 
> >>  
> >>      button .frame0.frameNMS.fifth.button \
> >> 
> > 
> > It seems that this needs to be discussed again: at least I
> > would like to better understand most of the changes.
> > 
> > thanks
> > 
> >  Markus 
> > 
> > 
> 

-- 
Markus Neteler  <neteler itc it>  http://mpa.itc.it/markus/
ITC-irst -  Centro per la Ricerca Scientifica e Tecnologica
MPBA - Predictive Models for Biol. & Environ. Data Analysis
Via Sommarive, 18        -       38050 Povo (Trento), Italy