[Incubator] Fwd: Rasdaman as a 'Benevolent Dictatorship'
Peter Baumann
p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
Wed Jul 31 05:24:05 PDT 2013
Hi Bruce & all,
let me put in some thoughts.
First, it is a misconception that the company sucks up developers or code or
whatever. The open source variant, rasdaman community, is maintained under
guidance of Jacobs University. Some share of the contributions made are coming
from projects funded by the European Commission (eg, EarthServer, see
www.earthserver.eu), German Ministry of Research, and European Space Agency. As
usual with OS, this determines direction and pace to some extent.
Also, we see much contribution by the rasdaman GmbH company (check commit
logs!). So contrary to the often heard suspicion that a company draws OS
contribs into their product, quite the contrary is true here: the company
heavily contributes to rasdaman community progress. Parallel rasdaman, WMS, the
whole rasdaman code as such...wanna hear more examples?
Bottom line, there is some general, cloudy suspicion in OS world which IMHO
should be verified individually before becoming a decision basis. We are more
than happy to explain & discuss the detailed situation.
On 07/31/2013 07:29 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
> So I think that means they do not quality for OSGeo incubation. Part of our
> driver here is to promote open development (i.e. to ensure that anyone can
> take part - it is not pay-to-play, or in the benevolent dictatorship case
> create-to-play).
>
> Note "play" in the case is about "making significant strategic decisions"
> rather than simply "commit".
Let's differentiate here.
- Planning is something we would love to do in a more open and integrative way
indeed. We are immensely grateful and indebted for incubation and Bruce's
guidance, we are so much further than we have been before. It has brought us
forward significantly in our processes, and dealing with planning in a more
transparent and open way certainly is on the agenda. The problem is not that we
wouldn't want it, it's just a step we have to better understand ourselves - a
matter of learning curve on our side.
- Keeping a last say on some - few - critical issues and decisions is something
that indeed will remain a "benevolent dictatorship". I have tried more
collaborative approaches in the past, and other projects as well. Our attempt
failed miserably, and it took me huge effort to recover the project from
dissolving altogether. Where do other projects stand here?
* Linux kernel: Linus Torvalds decides about code that goes in.
* Debian: has tried democracy once, with the effect that the whole project
got stuck for a whole year for lack of decision abilities.
* PostgreSQL: has a quite rigorous approach as well. (We have a core PG
team member on board now.)
...more specific OS project examples on request.
And, personally, if I see people conducting religious flame wars of "slash good,
ampersand bad" (called REST) I get a nightmare to see such level of decision
making in our project.
Bottom line, this "benevolent dictatorship" is something we surely will keep up
while listening to all voices and accepting advice in open discussion. I'd love
to see OSGeo accept this, but if this turns out impossible for OSGeo I
understand that you will refuse to graduate us.
>
> I am not personally against benevolent dictatorship, that is how JTS
> (foundation of our industry) operates. It is just not the ideal we to promote
> as an organisation.
not sure I understand why. OSGeo has set out to do a "quality branding", and I
missed to find a rigorous justification for this item. Would the Linux project
pass incubation?
That is: I do understand that it is not the ideal. But do all projects have to
conform to one ideal, or is there room for flexibility and variety? We might not
be at the core, but what if we look at the complete picture?
Again, I am more than happy to discuss this - admittedly rather specific -
situation in an open way.
Just some thoughts,
Peter
>
> With that in mind, I expect you can read the announcement of
> "benevolent dictator" as truth in advertising (which is to be applauded).
> Please check with the project if open development is something they wish to
> work towards while in incubation, or if they wish to withdraw from incubation.
>
> If you feel especially worried about this one we can bump it up to the board
> to confirm our mandate as incubation committee, but this looks to fall within
> our jurisdiction (specifically your role as mentor).
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On Wednesday, 31 July 2013 at 10:00 AM, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
>
>> Please note the email exchange below.
>>
>> I would appreciate some advice from my Incubation Committee colleagues prior
>> to progressing further with this issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Rasdaman project has now declared itself to be "benevolent dictatorship"
>> project.
>>
>> I have been concerned for some time over the amount of decision making
>> control that is held within the leadership group. This group is closely
>> related to the Rasdaman GmbH company.
>>
>> While the project leadership team are making positive steps to open up
>> discussions on issues to the wider community, the decision making process is
>> far from transparent and is tightly controlled.
>>
>> I'm personally not comfortable with this situation and am seeing a real
>> danger of the project becoming a free development team for Rasdaman GmbH, but
>> with the project members having no real control over the future directions of
>> the project.
>>
>> You may also recall my comments in my last Incubation Report [1] relating to
>> the decision making process in this project.
>>
>> Is this a situation that we wish to see within an OSGeo endorsed project?
>>
>> What are your thoughts on the matter?
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Report22
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: *Bruce Bannerman* <B.Bannerman at bom.gov.au <mailto:B.Bannerman at bom.gov.au>>
>> Date: Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:49 AM
>> Subject: FW: [rasdaman-dev] patch quality [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>> To: Bruce Bannerman <bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/13 4:53 PM, "Peter Baumann" <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Bruce,
>> >
>> >as below:
>> >
>> >On 07/30/2013 02:53 AM, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
>> >> Peter,
>> >>
>> >> Out of interest:
>> >>
>> >> What process are we using to review and accept contributed patches?
>> >
>> >the patch manager page accepts submissions, which are reviewed by
>> >committers
>> >internally. Everyone can commit, upon doubts we discuss. Accepted or
>> >rejected,
>> >submitters get notified.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Who undertakes this work?
>> >
>> >committers currently are:
>> >Peter Baumann
>> >Dimitar Misev
>> >Stephan Meissl
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Do we have a formal group of 'committers' to undertake this task?
>> >
>> >the above ones who get active depending on availability (we have a quite
>> >high
>> >submission frequency).
>> >
>> >>
>> >> How do community members become committers? What process is used?
>> >
>> >as Piero mentioned recently: we have the "benevolent dictatorship"
>> >variant in place.
>> >open and free discussion, and everybody for sure is heard, but I reserve
>> >the
>> >right for an ultimate decision.
>> >
>> >-Peter
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Bruce
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 29/07/13 5:24 PM, "Peter Baumann" <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Dear contributors,
>> >>>
>> >>> continuously you are greatly enhancing rasdaman. Please take care of
>> >>>the
>> >>> advice
>> >>> given on the patch submission page, in particular the code guide.
>> >>> Frequent issues which may lead to rejection of a patch:
>> >>> - no test provided for the fix/enhancement
>> >>> - code guide violated, most commonly: formatting, use of variables
>> >>> - fix addresses local problem reported, but obviously leaves open the
>> >>> "hole" for
>> >>> other, similar situations
>> >>>
>> >>> In particular fixes submitted against master must adhere to our
>> >>> guidelines.
>> >>>
>> >>> thanks for caring, and keep on doing good things,
>> >>> Peter
>> >>>
>> >>> PS: an announcement: having Susanne on board now (she comes from the
>> >>> PostgreSQL
>> >>> and MySQL communities) we are getting further insights into OS code
>> >>> management.
>> >>> Stay tuned, she has spotted our petascope error handling!
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Dr. Peter Baumann
>> >>> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>> >>> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>> <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
>> >>> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
>> >>> tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax:
>> +49-421-200-493178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
>> >>> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>> >>> www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
>> <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
>> >>> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
>> <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
>> >>> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
>> >>> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
>> >>> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer,
>> >>>AD
>> >>> 1083)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >>>Groups
>> >>> "rasdaman-dev" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> >>>an
>> >>> email to rasdaman-dev+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:rasdaman-dev%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
>> >>> To post to this group, send email to rasdaman-dev at googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:rasdaman-dev at googlegroups.com>.
>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rasdaman-dev.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> >--
>> >Dr. Peter Baumann
>> > - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>> > www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>> <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
>> > mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
>> > tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax: +49-421-200-493178
>> <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
>> > - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>> > www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
>> <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
>> > tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
>> <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
>> >"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
>> >ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
>> >destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD
>> >1083)
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> >"rasdaman-dev" group.
>> >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> >email to rasdaman-dev+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:rasdaman-dev%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
>> >To post to this group, send email to rasdaman-dev at googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:rasdaman-dev at googlegroups.com>.
>> >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rasdaman-dev.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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