[Incubator] gvSIG project graduation (Update)

Cameron Shorter cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Tue Oct 27 09:46:52 PDT 2015


Hi Alvaro,
I'm now satisfied with the quality of the documentation. Thank you.

Hi Dimitris,
I'll follow up on your email thread requesting a vote for graduation.


On 27/10/2015 8:29 pm, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
> Hi Cameron, all,
>
> El 26/10/15 a las 21:46, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>> Alvaro, Dimitris,
>> Thanks for copying this documentation into a more prominent location, 
>> but you have missed the core message from my comments. The quality of 
>> the documentation is not yet of a standard worthy of professional 
>> software.
>>
>> Would you use such documentation in a bid proposal for new work, when 
>> competing against other companies? Because people reviewing the 
>> quality of gvSIG will look at documentation like this to assess the 
>> maturity of gvSIG.
> Well, in my experience the clients never select a company by these 
> type of things. A client select a company by its experience, cv, etc...
> We have clients around the world, and never, never a client ask us 
> about this type of technical documentation (about gvSIG or any other 
> of the open source software that we use -mapserver, geoserver, 
> postgis, openlayers, leaflet..-).
> But this is another discussion.  For another day.
> :-)
>>
>> Personally, I find this documentation worthy of a first draft, 
>> possibly written by a developer, which needs review from a technical 
>> writer, of business development manager or similar, who is used to 
>> writing concise technical documentation.
>>
>> I've copied the documentation into a word document, then used track 
>> changes and comments to give you an indication of what I would expect 
>> from such a review, and the level of quality that I think should be 
>> considered the norm for an OSGeo Graduated project.
>>
>> I realise I'm being harsh in my comments, but I hope you find it 
>> better to hear such comments from a friend, rather than being judged 
>> and dismissed by your potential customers further down the track.
> Thanks a lot for your work and for your suggestions to improve this 
> document. We have updated it [1] based on your comments,
> Really, I think that now we have a better information for developers.
>
> With this issue solved...are we ready?
>
> [1] 
> http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/
>
> Regars,
> Alvaro
>
>>
>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>
>> On 26/10/2015 8:23 pm, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
>>> Hi Cameron, all,
>>>
>>> El 20/10/15 a las 22:48, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>> Hi Alvaro
>>>>
>>>> You are right, I'm just one voice on the OSGeo Incubation 
>>>> committee. It would be good to hear the opinion of others as well.
>>> We've waited some days to answer in case somebody wanted to add 
>>> anything. We suppose that the order members of OSGeo Incubation 
>>> Committee agree with you, and that they aren't any other additional 
>>> requirements.
>>>>
>>>> You are right, writing style is not a graduation criteria, and I'd 
>>>> vote to pass a project with sub-optimal writing style if the rest 
>>>> of the processes are in order.
>>>>
>>>> "Institutionalized Processes which are documented and FOLLOWED" is 
>>>> a requirement. My concern is that the management processes as 
>>>> documented are probably not being followed, as they would be 
>>>> difficult to be found by the development team, and probably not 
>>>> trusted as they don't look to be of the quality of the rest of the 
>>>> gvsig project.
>>>>
>>>> Hence my recommendation to incorporate decision making 
>>>> documentation into the rest of gvsig documentation.
>>>>
>>>> If time to complete is an issue, there are some work around options 
>>>> which I think would be acceptable.
>>>> Such as putting a placeholder in your master documentation which 
>>>> references the wiki page where the core content is. (With an intent 
>>>> to move the rest of the docs later).
>>>>
>>> We finally have copied the contests directly in the documentation 
>>> section (better than a placeholder):
>>> http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/
>>>
>>> At this way all the contents are in the same site.
>>>
>>> In future, we'll migrate all the information to the new gvSIG 
>>> website (I hope it will be in the next months).
>>>
>>> We understand that everything is ok to proceed to vote the 
>>> graduation of gvSIG project.
>>>
>>> I would like to ask you  when it's planned to decide it. I don't 
>>> know the procedure of OSGeo Incubation Committee from this point.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alvaro
>>>
>>>> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on whether you think my 
>>>> documentation comments are worth implementing, and if so, see a 
>>>> plan as to how they would be implemented. Ideally also mention a 
>>>> timeframe which would show how it can be done in time for 
>>>> completing incubation before the next gvsig conference.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Alvaro Anguix <aanguix at gvsig.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Cameron, all,
>>>>
>>>>     El 20/10/15 a las 21:07, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>>>     Hi Alvaro,
>>>>>     I agree that it would be great to announce gvSIG's graduation
>>>>>     from OSGeo incubation at the gvSIG conference (on 4 Dec?), and
>>>>>     I think it is also achievable, but require a quick turn
>>>>>     around. I'd like to help you with that from the OSGeo
>>>>>     Incubation Committee side of things.
>>>>>
>>>>>     With regards to the question of quality of documentation of
>>>>>     decision making processes, I do think this is important from
>>>>>     an incubation perspective, and is related to having
>>>>>     "institutionalized processes".
>>>>>
>>>>>     Refer to:
>>>>>     http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/project_graduation_checklist.html
>>>>>
>>>>>     A project should have institutionalized the processes in this
>>>>>     list or provide justification why the process is not used.
>>>>>     ...
>>>>>
>>>>>     Institutionalized Process
>>>>>         A documented process which which addresses a need and is
>>>>>         actively in use. It typically takes months before a
>>>>>         process becomes institutionalized.
>>>>>         /A more detailed definition of institutionalization is
>>>>>         found in theCapability Maturity Model (CMMI)
>>>>>         <http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/reports/02tr012.cfm>/
>>>>>     Open Source License
>>>>
>>>>     I agree, but I think the point is made/ok.
>>>>
>>>>     In your comments of the last email, you gave advice about
>>>>     writing style or the order of documentation publication
>>>>     (referring to language). Honestly, I think they are advices and
>>>>     recommendations, but not a requirement for graduation.
>>>>
>>>>     Is it necessary to comply with those recommendations? I would
>>>>     like the committee clearly answers this question.
>>>>
>>>>     Are we not getting into a level of detail that also is subjective?
>>>>
>>>>     Best  Regards,
>>>>     Alvaro
>>>>
>>>>>     Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>>
>>>>>     On 19/10/2015 10:17 pm, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
>>>>>>     Hi Cameron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     About the documentation in Spanish/English, we are finishing
>>>>>>     the last translations of the user and developer
>>>>>>     documentation, and we will have the 100% of the gvSIG
>>>>>>     documentation in Spanish and English (and in Portuguese too).
>>>>>>     We also are finishing the migration of the old infrastructure
>>>>>>     (docs.gvsig.org <http://docs.gvsig.org>) to the new one. In
>>>>>>     any case we take all the suggestions and improvements into
>>>>>>     account, that we will tackle as soon as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Anyway, the doubt that we have is if these suggestions are
>>>>>>     requirements for the incubation. We understand that they
>>>>>>     aren't requirements for the graduation, but we would like to
>>>>>>     confirm it. Mainly because the 11th International gvSIG
>>>>>>     Conference will be held soon, and we would like to announce
>>>>>>     the graduation previously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Thank you very much!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Best regards,
>>>>>>     Alvaro
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     El 16/10/15 a las 22:10, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>>>>>     Hi Alvaro,
>>>>>>>     Sorry for the slow response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Thanks for your updated principles. I've just reviewed and
>>>>>>>     here is my feedback:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     I think that you have captured the process of making
>>>>>>>     technical decisions, which is good. However:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     * The documentation is in a wiki [1], and not presented in
>>>>>>>     the same prominence as the rest of the gvsig documentation
>>>>>>>     [2]. I'd suggest that your processes should be moved out of
>>>>>>>     the wiki, and into the same doc system as the rest of the
>>>>>>>     docs, probably at:
>>>>>>>     http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/<something>
>>>>>>>     You might want to include the processes as another chapter
>>>>>>>     in the existing Developers Guide.
>>>>>>>     A good example you could follow is the GeoServer docs page
>>>>>>>     [3] which includes "Policies and Procedures".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     * The current text reads a bit like a news article, written
>>>>>>>     from an outsider's point of view, describing how you have
>>>>>>>     noticed that decisions are made. What would be better is
>>>>>>>     writing an authoritative process which gvSig team members
>>>>>>>     sometimes quote and refer to when making decisions. A news
>>>>>>>     article becomes dated, a documented process should be useful
>>>>>>>     for the community, and will get updated over time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     * The text looks like it has been written by one person, and
>>>>>>>     hasn't yet been reviewed by other core gvSig members. I'd
>>>>>>>     suggest that you'd likely get good feedback from your
>>>>>>>     internal gvSig community if you were to ask:
>>>>>>>     "Does this text accurately represent how we should make
>>>>>>>     decisions in the future? Are we as a community prepared to
>>>>>>>     use this documented process as a guide for our future
>>>>>>>     decisions?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     * I notice that much of the gvSig documentation is written
>>>>>>>     in Spanish. I'm not sure, but it is possible you would get
>>>>>>>     better feedback from your community if this document was
>>>>>>>     written first in Spanish, and if desired, later translated
>>>>>>>     to English.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Sorry again for the delayed response, and also for giving
>>>>>>>     you more homework. I do encourage you to keep going because
>>>>>>>     I think it would be valuable for the gvsig community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     [1]
>>>>>>>     https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki
>>>>>>>     [2] http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/
>>>>>>>     [3] http://docs.geoserver.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     On 8/10/2015 7:19 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>>>>>>     Thanks Alvaro! Recovering from foss4g on this end, thanks
>>>>>>>>     for updating the wiki. I believe we are getting down to the
>>>>>>>>     end here, thanks for the clarifications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     --
>>>>>>>>     Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     On 1 October 2015 at 05:37, Alvaro Anguix
>>>>>>>>     <aanguix at gvsig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Apologies for the delay, but I've been in 2nd gvSIG
>>>>>>>>         Conference in Peru
>>>>>>>>         and I couldn't update the checklist information before.
>>>>>>>>         Now it's updated:
>>>>>>>>         http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         The principal link about technical decisions and gvSIG
>>>>>>>>         organization is this:
>>>>>>>>         https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>         Alvaro
>>>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>         Incubator mailing list
>>>>>>>>         Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>>         <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>>>         http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>     Incubator mailing list
>>>>>>>>     Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>>>     http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     -- 
>>>>>>>     Cameron Shorter,
>>>>>>>     Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>>>>     LISAsoft
>>>>>>>     Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>>>>     26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     P+61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>,  F+61 2 9009 5099 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     -- 
>>>>>     Cameron Shorter,
>>>>>     Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>>     LISAsoft
>>>>>     Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>>     26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>
>>>>>     P+61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>,  F+61 2 9009 5099 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>> LISAsoft
>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>
>>>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, 
>>>>  F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Incubator mailing list
>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>
>> -- 
>> Cameron Shorter,
>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>> LISAsoft
>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>
>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  Wwww.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>

-- 
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099

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