[Incubator] gvSIG project graduation (Update)
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Tue Oct 27 09:46:52 PDT 2015
Hi Alvaro,
I'm now satisfied with the quality of the documentation. Thank you.
Hi Dimitris,
I'll follow up on your email thread requesting a vote for graduation.
On 27/10/2015 8:29 pm, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
> Hi Cameron, all,
>
> El 26/10/15 a las 21:46, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>> Alvaro, Dimitris,
>> Thanks for copying this documentation into a more prominent location,
>> but you have missed the core message from my comments. The quality of
>> the documentation is not yet of a standard worthy of professional
>> software.
>>
>> Would you use such documentation in a bid proposal for new work, when
>> competing against other companies? Because people reviewing the
>> quality of gvSIG will look at documentation like this to assess the
>> maturity of gvSIG.
> Well, in my experience the clients never select a company by these
> type of things. A client select a company by its experience, cv, etc...
> We have clients around the world, and never, never a client ask us
> about this type of technical documentation (about gvSIG or any other
> of the open source software that we use -mapserver, geoserver,
> postgis, openlayers, leaflet..-).
> But this is another discussion. For another day.
> :-)
>>
>> Personally, I find this documentation worthy of a first draft,
>> possibly written by a developer, which needs review from a technical
>> writer, of business development manager or similar, who is used to
>> writing concise technical documentation.
>>
>> I've copied the documentation into a word document, then used track
>> changes and comments to give you an indication of what I would expect
>> from such a review, and the level of quality that I think should be
>> considered the norm for an OSGeo Graduated project.
>>
>> I realise I'm being harsh in my comments, but I hope you find it
>> better to hear such comments from a friend, rather than being judged
>> and dismissed by your potential customers further down the track.
> Thanks a lot for your work and for your suggestions to improve this
> document. We have updated it [1] based on your comments,
> Really, I think that now we have a better information for developers.
>
> With this issue solved...are we ready?
>
> [1]
> http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/
>
> Regars,
> Alvaro
>
>>
>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>
>> On 26/10/2015 8:23 pm, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
>>> Hi Cameron, all,
>>>
>>> El 20/10/15 a las 22:48, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>> Hi Alvaro
>>>>
>>>> You are right, I'm just one voice on the OSGeo Incubation
>>>> committee. It would be good to hear the opinion of others as well.
>>> We've waited some days to answer in case somebody wanted to add
>>> anything. We suppose that the order members of OSGeo Incubation
>>> Committee agree with you, and that they aren't any other additional
>>> requirements.
>>>>
>>>> You are right, writing style is not a graduation criteria, and I'd
>>>> vote to pass a project with sub-optimal writing style if the rest
>>>> of the processes are in order.
>>>>
>>>> "Institutionalized Processes which are documented and FOLLOWED" is
>>>> a requirement. My concern is that the management processes as
>>>> documented are probably not being followed, as they would be
>>>> difficult to be found by the development team, and probably not
>>>> trusted as they don't look to be of the quality of the rest of the
>>>> gvsig project.
>>>>
>>>> Hence my recommendation to incorporate decision making
>>>> documentation into the rest of gvsig documentation.
>>>>
>>>> If time to complete is an issue, there are some work around options
>>>> which I think would be acceptable.
>>>> Such as putting a placeholder in your master documentation which
>>>> references the wiki page where the core content is. (With an intent
>>>> to move the rest of the docs later).
>>>>
>>> We finally have copied the contests directly in the documentation
>>> section (better than a placeholder):
>>> http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/
>>>
>>> At this way all the contents are in the same site.
>>>
>>> In future, we'll migrate all the information to the new gvSIG
>>> website (I hope it will be in the next months).
>>>
>>> We understand that everything is ok to proceed to vote the
>>> graduation of gvSIG project.
>>>
>>> I would like to ask you when it's planned to decide it. I don't
>>> know the procedure of OSGeo Incubation Committee from this point.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alvaro
>>>
>>>> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on whether you think my
>>>> documentation comments are worth implementing, and if so, see a
>>>> plan as to how they would be implemented. Ideally also mention a
>>>> timeframe which would show how it can be done in time for
>>>> completing incubation before the next gvsig conference.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Alvaro Anguix <aanguix at gvsig.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Cameron, all,
>>>>
>>>> El 20/10/15 a las 21:07, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>>> Hi Alvaro,
>>>>> I agree that it would be great to announce gvSIG's graduation
>>>>> from OSGeo incubation at the gvSIG conference (on 4 Dec?), and
>>>>> I think it is also achievable, but require a quick turn
>>>>> around. I'd like to help you with that from the OSGeo
>>>>> Incubation Committee side of things.
>>>>>
>>>>> With regards to the question of quality of documentation of
>>>>> decision making processes, I do think this is important from
>>>>> an incubation perspective, and is related to having
>>>>> "institutionalized processes".
>>>>>
>>>>> Refer to:
>>>>> http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/project_graduation_checklist.html
>>>>>
>>>>> A project should have institutionalized the processes in this
>>>>> list or provide justification why the process is not used.
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Institutionalized Process
>>>>> A documented process which which addresses a need and is
>>>>> actively in use. It typically takes months before a
>>>>> process becomes institutionalized.
>>>>> /A more detailed definition of institutionalization is
>>>>> found in theCapability Maturity Model (CMMI)
>>>>> <http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/reports/02tr012.cfm>/
>>>>> Open Source License
>>>>
>>>> I agree, but I think the point is made/ok.
>>>>
>>>> In your comments of the last email, you gave advice about
>>>> writing style or the order of documentation publication
>>>> (referring to language). Honestly, I think they are advices and
>>>> recommendations, but not a requirement for graduation.
>>>>
>>>> Is it necessary to comply with those recommendations? I would
>>>> like the committee clearly answers this question.
>>>>
>>>> Are we not getting into a level of detail that also is subjective?
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Alvaro
>>>>
>>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19/10/2015 10:17 pm, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Cameron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the documentation in Spanish/English, we are finishing
>>>>>> the last translations of the user and developer
>>>>>> documentation, and we will have the 100% of the gvSIG
>>>>>> documentation in Spanish and English (and in Portuguese too).
>>>>>> We also are finishing the migration of the old infrastructure
>>>>>> (docs.gvsig.org <http://docs.gvsig.org>) to the new one. In
>>>>>> any case we take all the suggestions and improvements into
>>>>>> account, that we will tackle as soon as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, the doubt that we have is if these suggestions are
>>>>>> requirements for the incubation. We understand that they
>>>>>> aren't requirements for the graduation, but we would like to
>>>>>> confirm it. Mainly because the 11th International gvSIG
>>>>>> Conference will be held soon, and we would like to announce
>>>>>> the graduation previously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you very much!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Alvaro
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El 16/10/15 a las 22:10, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>>>>> Hi Alvaro,
>>>>>>> Sorry for the slow response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your updated principles. I've just reviewed and
>>>>>>> here is my feedback:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that you have captured the process of making
>>>>>>> technical decisions, which is good. However:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * The documentation is in a wiki [1], and not presented in
>>>>>>> the same prominence as the rest of the gvsig documentation
>>>>>>> [2]. I'd suggest that your processes should be moved out of
>>>>>>> the wiki, and into the same doc system as the rest of the
>>>>>>> docs, probably at:
>>>>>>> http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/<something>
>>>>>>> You might want to include the processes as another chapter
>>>>>>> in the existing Developers Guide.
>>>>>>> A good example you could follow is the GeoServer docs page
>>>>>>> [3] which includes "Policies and Procedures".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * The current text reads a bit like a news article, written
>>>>>>> from an outsider's point of view, describing how you have
>>>>>>> noticed that decisions are made. What would be better is
>>>>>>> writing an authoritative process which gvSig team members
>>>>>>> sometimes quote and refer to when making decisions. A news
>>>>>>> article becomes dated, a documented process should be useful
>>>>>>> for the community, and will get updated over time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * The text looks like it has been written by one person, and
>>>>>>> hasn't yet been reviewed by other core gvSig members. I'd
>>>>>>> suggest that you'd likely get good feedback from your
>>>>>>> internal gvSig community if you were to ask:
>>>>>>> "Does this text accurately represent how we should make
>>>>>>> decisions in the future? Are we as a community prepared to
>>>>>>> use this documented process as a guide for our future
>>>>>>> decisions?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * I notice that much of the gvSig documentation is written
>>>>>>> in Spanish. I'm not sure, but it is possible you would get
>>>>>>> better feedback from your community if this document was
>>>>>>> written first in Spanish, and if desired, later translated
>>>>>>> to English.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry again for the delayed response, and also for giving
>>>>>>> you more homework. I do encourage you to keep going because
>>>>>>> I think it would be valuable for the gvsig community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki
>>>>>>> [2] http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/
>>>>>>> [3] http://docs.geoserver.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2015 7:19 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks Alvaro! Recovering from foss4g on this end, thanks
>>>>>>>> for updating the wiki. I believe we are getting down to the
>>>>>>>> end here, thanks for the clarifications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1 October 2015 at 05:37, Alvaro Anguix
>>>>>>>> <aanguix at gvsig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apologies for the delay, but I've been in 2nd gvSIG
>>>>>>>> Conference in Peru
>>>>>>>> and I couldn't update the checklist information before.
>>>>>>>> Now it's updated:
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The principal link about technical decisions and gvSIG
>>>>>>>> organization is this:
>>>>>>>> https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>> Alvaro
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>>>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>>>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>>>> LISAsoft
>>>>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P+61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>, Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F+61 2 9009 5099 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>> LISAsoft
>>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>
>>>>> P+61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>, Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F+61 2 9009 5099 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>> LISAsoft
>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>
>>>> P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>,
>>>> F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Incubator mailing list
>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter,
>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>> LISAsoft
>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>
>> P +61 2 9009 5000, Wwww.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099
>
--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099
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