[Incubator] gvSIG project graduation

Cameron Shorter cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Sun Sep 13 03:31:36 PDT 2015

I agree with Daniel, Jody and Evan's comments.
1. Major decisions should be documented in an publicly visible archive 
as a minimum, preferably with links to discussion (such as chat logs or 
email list threads).
2. The decision making process should be documented, and be open to 
community participation (such as through a PSC or similar)

On 11/09/2015 12:44 am, Even Rouault wrote:
>> Also, having staff perform the day to day management of the project
>> through face to face discussion may be more efficient (I have no
>> doubts), but that doesn't directly meet the "Open decision making
>> process" expectations that we have put on all other projects so far, so
>> the Incubation committee will have to decide on how we deal with that.
>> Do we treat gvSIG as an exception, or decide that open decision process
>> is no longer a requirement? And if we remove that requirement then how
>> do we distinguish between a private company just pushing its source code
>> to the public and a project managed the way gvSIG is managed?
>> The reason for the open decision making process is to make it easier for
>> new external contributors to join the day to day management of the
>> project and by the same way increase the project long term viability by
>> preventing the dependence on staff from a single organization.
>> For instance, several years ago I was the mentor for the MapGuide and
>> later on the FDO projects and we worked hard with them to move the
>> decision making from face to face discussions inside Autodesk offices to
>> the respective project mailing lists in order to open up to the community.
>> Sorry for the long email. I'd like to hear what other IncCom members think.
> Not an IncCom member, but just adding my 2 cents.
> I really think that the open decision making process is an important, and
> valuable, characteristics of OSGeo projects. Beyond the fundamental reason
> given by Daniel (making it as easy as possible for outsiders to join), I also
> think that having written decisions is important for a long existing project.
> Sometimes you look back in the past and wonder "why is that thing the way it
> is today?" and having traces of what was decided 5 years ago or more can be
> valuable. Writing things generally lead to better quality proposals since you
> need to better structure your thoughts. Of course all this apply to changes
> that have major or architectural impacts. Day to day smaller changes can be
> dealt more informally.
> A few examples of open decision making :
> http://mapserver.org/development/rfc/
> https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/RfcList
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Proposals
> Even
>> Daniel
>> On 2015-09-10 6:20 AM, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>> El 10/09/15 a las 04:12, Daniel Morissette escribió:
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> I started looking into the gvSIG incubation checklist at
>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist and am having a
>>>> hard time tracking down info about the Technical Steering Committee.
>>>> The checklist points to
>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Technical_Steering_Committee which in
>>>> turn points to two broken links for the
>>>> [https://gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion gvSIG TSC front
>>>> page] and [https://lists.forge.osor.eu/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub
>>>> public mailing list]
>>>> Can you please review the Incubation Checklist page (and the pages
>>>> that it links to) and make sure all links are working? I'd like to see
>>>> archives of the TSC mailing list showing that decisions are indeed
>>>> made in an open manner and in collaboration with the community on a
>>>> public list and I cannot find that at the moment. I managed to find an
>>>> old TSC archive at
>>>> http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/mailman/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub but
>>>> the most recent posts date from 2013.
>>> Thank you for the feedback!.
>>> You are completely right. In its day, that part was reviewed and
>>> accepted already, so we complete the reviewing tasks that were pending.
>>> And right, there has been enough time to evolve the management of that
>>> part.
>>> Such was the case that we didn't pay attention to these links, and with
>>> the new gvSIG website (<http://www.gvsig.org/>www.gvsig.org), to consult
>>> the contents of the old website, the text “docs” has to be added to the
>>> URL. For example, the link
>>> (<https://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion>https://gvsig.or
>>> g/web/working-groups/organizacion)would be:
>>> <http://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion>http://docs.gvsig.
>>> org/web/working-groups/organizacion
>>> With the advance of the project we have been correcting issues that we
>>> think they make us to be more efficient. Efficient in the meaning of
>>> eliminating the bureaucratic parts and speed up the decision making. It
>>> has also been possible, in a big part, thank to the professional
>>> structure of the project who works daily for the project. It can be
>>> different to other projects. It makes that the day-to-day decisions can
>>> be made by people of the professional structure (there's an architecture
>>> and development manager, and a product manager). The efficacy has been
>>> notable, and having a meeting every week to make small decisions didn't
>>> make as much as sense. It is thank to the professional structure that
>>> can dedicate all the time to gvSIG.
>>> And the TSC, that is composed of the main developers that are working on
>>> gvSIG, has a meeting after every final version in order to make
>>> decisions for the next version. Currently it is planned to release 2
>>> versions per year (one version in May and another one in December),
>>> although this year it has been an exception because we will release
>>> three versions (gvSIG 2.3 will be released in December). At that meeting
>>> it is decided what to work on for the next version. For example, for
>>> gvSIG 2.3, the next version, it's panned to make the effort to have a
>>> first distribution for MAC OS X and Windows 64 bits. It involves to
>>> change libraries for raster accessing and projections mainly... and we
>>> are working on it now.
>>> And instead of having proceedings, we preferred to advance one more step
>>> and publish the decisions publicly, because the proceedings are not read
>>> by a lot of people. Concretely in our blog. At this way, following the
>>> example of gvSIG 2.3, we announced that decision (this is the link in
>>> English but it was published in Spanish too):
>>> <http://blog.gvsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/>http://blog.g
>>> vsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/
>>> Of course it doesn't mean that gvSIG includes only these changes. We
>>> have to include all the possible functionalities developed by the
>>> community that are integrated with that version (but it's out of the
>>> initial planning and the gvSIG scope of decision).
>>> And there's also some decisions about some objectives at these meetings
>>> that are not carried out at the next version. It is listed at the gvSIG
>>> redmine, at the “whislist” option -the access to this list is also
>>> public-:
>>> <https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%3F
>>> &set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=o&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]
>>> =%3D&v[tracker_id][]=11&f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subj
>>> ect&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&group_by>https://redmine.gvsig.net/red
>>> mine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&set_filter=1&f[]=status
>>> _id&op[status_id]=o&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]=%3D&v[tracker_id][]=11&
>>> f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=
>>> updated_on&group_by=
>>> *In summary:*
>>> We can correct these links, adding “docs”, but it wouldn't make much
>>> sense because now we work in another way, although it was reviewed then.
>>> It's another way that I think it is more open and agile.
>>> We would be able to summarize the information of this e-mail and add it
>>> to the checklist.
>>> And thank you again for reviewing our job!
>>> Alvaro Anguix
>>> gvSIG Association
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Daniel
>>>> On 2015-08-11 1:07 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>>> General call out to the committee to help review on this one :)
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>> On 28 July 2015 at 04:27, Dimitris Kotzinos <kotzino at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:kotzino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>      Dear all,
>>>>>      I am happy today to report to the list that the gvSIG project has
>>>>>      fulfilled in my view all the criteria put forward by the OSGeo
>>>>>      Incubation Committee and as the project mentor I support the
>>>>> project's
>>>>>      request for graduation.
>>>>>      gvSIG is one of the healthiest and very active projects around,
>>>>> with a
>>>>>      solid developer and user base. It has been around for a long time
>>>>> and
>>>>>      has done excellent things, the latest being an award at the NASA
>>>>> World
>>>>>      Wind contest received in FOSS4G-Europe in Como, Italy this month.
>>>>>      I had the chance to meet with the gvSIG people at FOSS4G-E in
>>>>> Como and
>>>>>      we finalized the checklist for the project graduation. You can
>>>>> find the
>>>>>      checklist here:
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist
>>>>>      The people around gvSIG have responded greatly to all the requests
>>>>>      I made as a mentor, they have gone even beyond that in many
>>>>>      occasions, e.g. by providing live statistics on their developers'
>>>>>      activity. They have gone through a code provenance review, they
>>>>>      have user and developer lists in many languages and they have in
>>>>>      place governance practices that abide with what I would consider
>>>>>      proper governance of open source projects.
>>>>>      I would like to ask the list to take the time and have a look to
>>>>>      the checklist mentioned above and if anything is found out of the
>>>>>      order please let me and Manuel Madrid <mmadrid at gvsig.com
>>>>> <mailto:mmadrid at gvsig.com>> know.
>>>>>      I would also like to ask Jody to initiate the proper time period
>>>>>      for comments and declare the time for voting when the time comes.
>>>>>      Finally I would like to thank Manuel and Alvaro from the gvSIG
>>>>>      Association for their excellent collaboration and to publicly
>>>>> apologize
>>>>>      to them that sometimes the work load prohibited me to be as
>>>>> available
>>>>>      and responsive as I would like.
>>>>>      Thank you for your attention,
>>>>>      Best regards,
>>>>>      Dimitris
>>>>>      P.S.1: Although the project has made a great effort to provide
>>>>> English
>>>>>      documentation for ... everything, some things might be found in
>>>>> Spanish
>>>>>      (their language of origin), as well as some of the most active
>>>>> lists are
>>>>>      the Spanish ones. I respected that and I let the project take its
>>>>> time
>>>>>      and decide by itself on what to translate and what not.
>>>>>      But I would like to say kudos on their efforts to provide
>>>>> everything in
>>>>>      at least both Spanish and English.
>>>>>      P.S.2: Since during the process we had to switch from the checklist
>>>>>      v.1.0 to v.2.0 of graduation requirements I was wondering what is
>>>>> the
>>>>>      proper way to introduce comments and requests for changes for this.
>>>>>      --
>>>>>      Dimitris Kotzinos
>>>>>      Professor
>>>>>      Head MIDI team
>>>>>      Lab. ETIS (ENSEA/UCP/CNRS UMR 8051)
>>>>>      & Dept. Sciences Informatiques, Université de Cergy-Pontoise
>>>>>      2 av. Adolphe Chauvin
>>>>>      Site Saint Martin, bureau A561
>>>>>      95000 Pontoise
>>>>>      France
>>>>>      phone: +33 13425 2855
>>>>>      e-mail: Dimitrios.Kotzinos at u-cergy.fr
>>>>> <mailto:Dimitrios.Kotzinos at u-cergy.fr>
>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>      Incubator mailing list
>>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator

Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

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