[Incubator] gvSIG project graduation
Alvaro Anguix
aanguix at gvsig.com
Mon Sep 14 04:39:49 PDT 2015
Hello Cameron,
El 13/09/15 a las 12:31, Cameron Shorter escribió:
> I agree with Daniel, Jody and Evan's comments.
> 1. Major decisions should be documented in an publicly visible archive
> as a minimum, preferably with links to discussion (such as chat logs
> or email list threads).
> 2. The decision making process should be documented, and be open to
> community participation (such as through a PSC or similar)
>
About (1), as we've told, the important decisions are published where it
is more visible, at the gvSIG blog (currently from 500 to 1000 visits
every day). The day-to-day decisions are made by the professional
structure.
Respecting (2), about the organization model you have the details here:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2015-September/002786.html
As it was commented previously, there are meetings every six months in
order to define the next version. About the participation, we go beyond
a technical management, and companies participate at the economical
decision making of the project, and at the responsibility of supporting
the professional structure.
We also told that some years ago, when a professional structure wasn't
possible, there was a voluntaries scheme. In our case, and from our
experience it would be a regression to return to model like that, much
more inefficient; at least in a software development model oriented to
organizations and not to individuals.
I think we don't have to talk in circles about the same. Explained our
model, I think the incubation committee has to decide about the gvSIG
graduation or not.
Thanks,
Alvaro
> On 11/09/2015 12:44 am, Even Rouault wrote:
>>> Also, having staff perform the day to day management of the project
>>> through face to face discussion may be more efficient (I have no
>>> doubts), but that doesn't directly meet the "Open decision making
>>> process" expectations that we have put on all other projects so far, so
>>> the Incubation committee will have to decide on how we deal with that.
>>> Do we treat gvSIG as an exception, or decide that open decision process
>>> is no longer a requirement? And if we remove that requirement then how
>>> do we distinguish between a private company just pushing its source
>>> code
>>> to the public and a project managed the way gvSIG is managed?
>>>
>>> The reason for the open decision making process is to make it easier
>>> for
>>> new external contributors to join the day to day management of the
>>> project and by the same way increase the project long term viability by
>>> preventing the dependence on staff from a single organization.
>>>
>>> For instance, several years ago I was the mentor for the MapGuide and
>>> later on the FDO projects and we worked hard with them to move the
>>> decision making from face to face discussions inside Autodesk
>>> offices to
>>> the respective project mailing lists in order to open up to the
>>> community.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for the long email. I'd like to hear what other IncCom members
>>> think.
>> Not an IncCom member, but just adding my 2 cents.
>>
>> I really think that the open decision making process is an important,
>> and
>> valuable, characteristics of OSGeo projects. Beyond the fundamental
>> reason
>> given by Daniel (making it as easy as possible for outsiders to
>> join), I also
>> think that having written decisions is important for a long existing
>> project.
>> Sometimes you look back in the past and wonder "why is that thing the
>> way it
>> is today?" and having traces of what was decided 5 years ago or more
>> can be
>> valuable. Writing things generally lead to better quality proposals
>> since you
>> need to better structure your thoughts. Of course all this apply to
>> changes
>> that have major or architectural impacts. Day to day smaller changes
>> can be
>> dealt more informally.
>>
>> A few examples of open decision making :
>> http://mapserver.org/development/rfc/
>> https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/RfcList
>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Proposals
>>
>> Even
>>
>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> On 2015-09-10 6:20 AM, Alvaro Anguix wrote:
>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>
>>>> El 10/09/15 a las 04:12, Daniel Morissette escribió:
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I started looking into the gvSIG incubation checklist at
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist and am having a
>>>>> hard time tracking down info about the Technical Steering Committee.
>>>>>
>>>>> The checklist points to
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Technical_Steering_Committee
>>>>> which in
>>>>> turn points to two broken links for the
>>>>> [https://gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion gvSIG TSC front
>>>>> page] and [https://lists.forge.osor.eu/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub
>>>>> public mailing list]
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you please review the Incubation Checklist page (and the pages
>>>>> that it links to) and make sure all links are working? I'd like to
>>>>> see
>>>>> archives of the TSC mailing list showing that decisions are indeed
>>>>> made in an open manner and in collaboration with the community on a
>>>>> public list and I cannot find that at the moment. I managed to
>>>>> find an
>>>>> old TSC archive at
>>>>> http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/mailman/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub but
>>>>> the most recent posts date from 2013.
>>>> Thank you for the feedback!.
>>>> You are completely right. In its day, that part was reviewed and
>>>> accepted already, so we complete the reviewing tasks that were
>>>> pending.
>>>> And right, there has been enough time to evolve the management of that
>>>> part.
>>>>
>>>> Such was the case that we didn't pay attention to these links, and
>>>> with
>>>> the new gvSIG website (<http://www.gvsig.org/>www.gvsig.org), to
>>>> consult
>>>> the contents of the old website, the text “docs” has to be added to
>>>> the
>>>> URL. For example, the link
>>>> (<https://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion>https://gvsig.or
>>>>
>>>> g/web/working-groups/organizacion)would be:
>>>>
>>>> <http://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion>http://docs.gvsig.
>>>>
>>>> org/web/working-groups/organizacion
>>>>
>>>> With the advance of the project we have been correcting issues that we
>>>> think they make us to be more efficient. Efficient in the meaning of
>>>> eliminating the bureaucratic parts and speed up the decision
>>>> making. It
>>>> has also been possible, in a big part, thank to the professional
>>>> structure of the project who works daily for the project. It can be
>>>> different to other projects. It makes that the day-to-day decisions
>>>> can
>>>> be made by people of the professional structure (there's an
>>>> architecture
>>>> and development manager, and a product manager). The efficacy has been
>>>> notable, and having a meeting every week to make small decisions
>>>> didn't
>>>> make as much as sense. It is thank to the professional structure that
>>>> can dedicate all the time to gvSIG.
>>>>
>>>> And the TSC, that is composed of the main developers that are
>>>> working on
>>>> gvSIG, has a meeting after every final version in order to make
>>>> decisions for the next version. Currently it is planned to release 2
>>>> versions per year (one version in May and another one in December),
>>>> although this year it has been an exception because we will release
>>>> three versions (gvSIG 2.3 will be released in December). At that
>>>> meeting
>>>> it is decided what to work on for the next version. For example, for
>>>> gvSIG 2.3, the next version, it's panned to make the effort to have a
>>>> first distribution for MAC OS X and Windows 64 bits. It involves to
>>>> change libraries for raster accessing and projections mainly... and we
>>>> are working on it now.
>>>>
>>>> And instead of having proceedings, we preferred to advance one more
>>>> step
>>>> and publish the decisions publicly, because the proceedings are not
>>>> read
>>>> by a lot of people. Concretely in our blog. At this way, following the
>>>> example of gvSIG 2.3, we announced that decision (this is the link in
>>>> English but it was published in Spanish too):
>>>>
>>>> <http://blog.gvsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/>http://blog.g
>>>>
>>>> vsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/
>>>>
>>>> Of course it doesn't mean that gvSIG includes only these changes. We
>>>> have to include all the possible functionalities developed by the
>>>> community that are integrated with that version (but it's out of the
>>>> initial planning and the gvSIG scope of decision).
>>>>
>>>> And there's also some decisions about some objectives at these
>>>> meetings
>>>> that are not carried out at the next version. It is listed at the
>>>> gvSIG
>>>> redmine, at the “whislist” option -the access to this list is also
>>>> public-:
>>>>
>>>> <https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%3F
>>>>
>>>> &set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=o&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]
>>>>
>>>> =%3D&v[tracker_id][]=11&f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subj
>>>>
>>>> ect&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&group_by>https://redmine.gvsig.net/red
>>>>
>>>> mine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&set_filter=1&f[]=status
>>>>
>>>> _id&op[status_id]=o&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]=%3D&v[tracker_id][]=11&
>>>>
>>>> f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=
>>>>
>>>> updated_on&group_by=
>>>>
>>>> *In summary:*
>>>>
>>>> We can correct these links, adding “docs”, but it wouldn't make much
>>>> sense because now we work in another way, although it was reviewed
>>>> then.
>>>> It's another way that I think it is more open and agile.
>>>>
>>>> We would be able to summarize the information of this e-mail and
>>>> add it
>>>> to the checklist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And thank you again for reviewing our job!
>>>>
>>>> Alvaro Anguix
>>>>
>>>> gvSIG Association
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-08-11 1:07 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>>>> General call out to the committee to help review on this one :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28 July 2015 at 04:27, Dimitris Kotzinos <kotzino at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:kotzino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>> I am happy today to report to the list that the gvSIG
>>>>>> project has
>>>>>> fulfilled in my view all the criteria put forward by the OSGeo
>>>>>> Incubation Committee and as the project mentor I support the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> project's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> request for graduation.
>>>>>> gvSIG is one of the healthiest and very active projects around,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> solid developer and user base. It has been around for a long
>>>>>> time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> has done excellent things, the latest being an award at the
>>>>>> NASA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> World
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wind contest received in FOSS4G-Europe in Como, Italy this
>>>>>> month.
>>>>>> I had the chance to meet with the gvSIG people at
>>>>>> FOSS4G-E in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Como and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we finalized the checklist for the project graduation. You can
>>>>>>
>>>>>> find the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> checklist here:
>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The people around gvSIG have responded greatly to all the
>>>>>> requests
>>>>>> I made as a mentor, they have gone even beyond that in many
>>>>>> occasions, e.g. by providing live statistics on their
>>>>>> developers'
>>>>>> activity. They have gone through a code provenance review, they
>>>>>> have user and developer lists in many languages and they
>>>>>> have in
>>>>>> place governance practices that abide with what I would
>>>>>> consider
>>>>>> proper governance of open source projects.
>>>>>> I would like to ask the list to take the time and have
>>>>>> a look to
>>>>>> the checklist mentioned above and if anything is found out
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> order please let me and Manuel Madrid <mmadrid at gvsig.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mmadrid at gvsig.com>> know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would also like to ask Jody to initiate the proper time
>>>>>> period
>>>>>> for comments and declare the time for voting when the time
>>>>>> comes.
>>>>>> Finally I would like to thank Manuel and Alvaro from
>>>>>> the gvSIG
>>>>>> Association for their excellent collaboration and to publicly
>>>>>>
>>>>>> apologize
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to them that sometimes the work load prohibited me to be as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> available
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and responsive as I would like.
>>>>>> Thank you for your attention,
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Dimitris
>>>>>> P.S.1: Although the project has made a great effort to
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>
>>>>>> English
>>>>>>
>>>>>> documentation for ... everything, some things might be found in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spanish
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (their language of origin), as well as some of the most active
>>>>>>
>>>>>> lists are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the Spanish ones. I respected that and I let the project
>>>>>> take its
>>>>>>
>>>>>> time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and decide by itself on what to translate and what not.
>>>>>> But I would like to say kudos on their efforts to provide
>>>>>>
>>>>>> everything in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at least both Spanish and English.
>>>>>> P.S.2: Since during the process we had to switch from
>>>>>> the checklist
>>>>>> v.1.0 to v.2.0 of graduation requirements I was wondering
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> proper way to introduce comments and requests for changes
>>>>>> for this.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dimitris Kotzinos
>>>>>> Professor
>>>>>> Head MIDI team
>>>>>> Lab. ETIS (ENSEA/UCP/CNRS UMR 8051)
>>>>>> & Dept. Sciences Informatiques, Université de Cergy-Pontoise
>>>>>> 2 av. Adolphe Chauvin
>>>>>> Site Saint Martin, bureau A561
>>>>>> 95000 Pontoise
>>>>>> France
>>>>>> phone: +33 13425 2855
>>>>>> e-mail: Dimitrios.Kotzinos at u-cergy.fr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:Dimitrios.Kotzinos at u-cergy.fr>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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