[Incubator] Info on the Old OSGeo Labs

Stephen Woodbridge woodbri at swoodbridge.com
Fri Mar 11 10:52:43 PST 2016


I think think Community would meet our needs. +1 for that.

-Steve

On 3/11/2016 1:35 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
> We have a strong negative reaction from Cameron for "Technology", and a
> strong negative reaction from me for "Builder". That leaves "Community"
> - it does meet our need of being inclusive and welcoming projects into
> OSGeo.
>
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 11 March 2016 at 09:52, Landon Blake <sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I know there are some people that don't like the "Technology" name,
>     but we did hold a vote of committee members. I'll remind everyone
>     that these three names were tied for the top choice:
>
>     "Community Project", "Builder Project" and "Technology Project".
>
>     I think we should stick with one of these top 3 and not reopen this
>     debate on the name. If we keep doing that, we won't make forward
>     progress. If we need to hold a quick e-mail vote to pick between the
>     3 names that tied for top choice, then lets do that.
>
>     Landon
>
>     On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Jody Garnett
>     <jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Okay I got a naming idea - that should at least work.  I thank
>         everyone for this difficult discussion - much more important to
>         set expectations and scope now (then later once the program has
>         gone live).
>
>         I initially liked "Innovator" - sadly it had too much of an RnD
>         focus and the resulting projects would not come across as
>         stable. So not especially suitable of pgRouting. Their is also
>         the danger that established osgeo projects would feel left out
>         such "innovation" has a nice marketing ring to it - Jeroen
>         expressed this valid concern.
>
>         I liked "Technology" - taking things firmly in the direction of
>         established (but too busy or too small for incubation). Very
>         suitable for projects like JTS, PRJ or pgRouting. Cameron
>         expressed concern on branding confusion with respect to
>         foundation projects - a table could help mitigate this some what
>         but if is a valid concern.
>
>         I am having a hard time coming up with a new name. Our initial
>         enthusiasm with a poll missed on the discussion we could put
>         behind each name.
>
>         One Idea I am trying to make work (it does not work) is "Dev"
>         (not development - but like our dev and devel
>         <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo> email lists ...). It
>         has a bit too much of an RnD flavour - when applied to JTS, or
>         PgRouting the resulting technology does not sound finished. It
>         does however reflect the open source and community (that is the
>         people side) of the technology - there is a clear distinction
>         between foundations project and dev. So it is close - but much
>         like "builder" it sounds incomplete and not fully acknowledged
>         as being part of the foundation.
>
>         --
>         Jody Garnett
>
>         On 8 March 2016 at 12:30, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com
>         <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Thanks for the support/discussion Daniel/Cameron - I am open
>             to a word other than "OSGeo Technology".
>
>             Many of the other words proposed missed the point of the
>             exercise... it is more useful to think of a project like
>             pgRouting <http://pgrouting.org> or PROJ
>             <https://trac.osgeo.org/proj/> than to think of 100 lines of
>             javascript.
>
>
>
>             --
>             Jody Garnett
>
>             On 8 March 2016 at 12:25, Cameron Shorter
>             <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>             <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Jody,
>                 As per Daniel's comment.
>                 +1 to OSGeo being more inclusive by providing a light
>                 weight process for joining (in line with your suggestions)
>                 -1 for the words "OSGeo Technology". Are you open to
>                 changing to another word than "Technology"?
>
>
>                 On 9/03/2016 2:22 am, Daniel Morissette wrote:
>
>                     Hi Jody,
>
>                     FWIW I like the idea of a more inclusive place such
>                     as the former "OSGeo Labs", I was even one of the
>                     early supporters of the idea.
>
>                     The only concern that I expressed earlier was to
>                     make sure that terminology and expectations are
>                     clear for visitors to the site. I don't want this to
>                     be perceived as a blocker, it was just a
>                     constructive comment to help clarify the wording to
>                     make sure that users know what they are getting from
>                     what we call OSGeo projects vs OSGeo technology.
>
>                     Perhaps a comparison page to address the differences
>                     between Projects vs Technology would help address
>                     the possible confusion?
>
>                     Daniel
>
>
>                     On 2016-03-08 10:13 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>
>                         We are setting something up different that is
>                         not OSGeo labs. We are
>                         validating - that these projects are open source
>                         and participatory.
>
>                         The result is hopefully a larger OSGeo community.
>
>                         This direction comes out of a board discussion
>                         around being inclusive
>                         and innovative. It could be the OSGeo Technology
>                         idea won't fly ...
>
>                         Our OSGeo incubation process is set up for
>                         stability and safety. While I
>                         respect this it is holding us back from
>                         including different categories
>                         of projects.
>
>                         I think the larger issue for the board to
>                         wrestle with is that the
>                         foundation does not provide enough value to
>                         projects. While they are
>                         willing to step up assistance (say incubation
>                         sprint or external code
>                         review) we on the incubation list need to look
>                         at our priorities on who
>                         we can extend this assistance to.
>
>                         I would still like to see projects like
>                         pgRouting try their hand at
>                         incubation. I think it is a shame incubation.
>                         and the foundation, is
>                         considered hard.
>
>                         In fact open source is hard, and we are here to
>                         help.
>
>                         On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 2:35 AM Cameron Shorter
>                         <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>                         <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>                         <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>                         <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>                              Hey Jody,
>                              I'm actually agreeing with all you are
>                         suggesting doing with the
>                              rebranded "OSGeo Labs", except the name
>                         "OSGeo Technology". This
>                              name misrepresents the "Self Serve",
>                         non-validated concept of "OSGeo
>                              Labs". The name implies "built out of OSGeo
>                         Projects".  This is a
>                              dis-service to people who come to our site
>                         for the first time, a
>                              dis-service to "OSGeo Projects" who now
>                         become associated with
>                              immature projects.
>
>                              Pick a more accurate name than "OSGeo
>                         Technology" and I'd back the
>                              rest of what you are suggesting.
>
>                              Warm regards, Cameron
>
>
>                              On 7/03/2016 9:55 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
>
>                                  This is going to be a tough one Cameron
>                             ... our brand currently
>                                  has a reputation for turning projects
>                             away ... not quality.
>
>                                  The long story short is how to respond
>                             to the direction to be
>                                  inclusive. We have two strong
>                             characters on this mailing list with
>                                  an axe to grind making it difficult for
>                             projects to be part of
>                                  OSGeo. I am very keen on projects
>                             *being* open source, and you are
>                                  very keen on making projects safe for
>                             users to adopt (project
>                                  viability, quality, open standards).
>
>                                  I am proposing repurposing "OSGeo Labs"
>                             (which did not promise
>                                  anything as a brand and got adopted by
>                             GeoForAll) as "OSGeo
>                                  Technology" to focus on the open source
>                             angle; in order to
>                                  preserve "OSGeo Projects" (and
>                             incubation) to focus on the second.
>
>                                  We have a tension here between being
>                             inclusive (read easy) and
>                                  transparent (which takes effort).
>
>                                  How would you like to add
>                             "transparency" to this mix? We could
>                                  provide a table with website, download,
>                             documentation, test
>                                  results - not sure if that would help
>                             with transparency?
>
>                                  I know we keep coming back to a rating
>                             system on this mailing list
>                                  - I recognize your work in this area
>                             for OSGeo Live with the
>                                  introduction of black duck metrics. I
>                             imagine you would also be
>                                  happy to phrase things as positive
>                             "badges" (for projects that
>                                  have documentation, or quality
>                             assurance, or standards
>                                  testing).  For quality, documentation
>                             and so forth I think we are
>                                  stuck leading by example (and perhaps
>                             working with the OGC on
>                                  standards compliance).
>
>                                  On 3 March 2016 at 23:57, Cameron Shorter
>                             <<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>                                  <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>                                      Hi Jody,
>                                      I agree with your suggestion that
>                             "Old OSGeo Labs" need not
>                                      have an aim of entering OSGeo
>                             incubation.
>                                      However, I object to any project
>                             becoming associated with
>                                      OSGeo without it being obvious
>                             about the level of quality
>                                      control the project has gone through.
>
>                                      As suggested below, I could knock
>                             together 100 lines of
>                                      uncommented, non-working code, give
>                             it an open source license,
>                                      and then add a "OSGeo Technology"
>                             logo to the home page. And
>                                      most average punters wouldn't know
>                             the difference between term
>                                      "OSGeo Project" and "OSGeo
>                             Technology". This would result in
>                                      diminishing the current association
>                             between OSGeo applications
>                                      and quality, which would be a bad
>                             thing.
>
>                                      I feel "OSGeo Labs", "OSGeo
>                             Community Builder Projects", or
>                                      shortened to "OSGeo Builder
>                             Projects" are less likely to be
>                                      confused with "OSGeo Incubated"
>                             projects.
>
>                                      Warm regards, Cameron
>
>
>                                      On 4/03/2016 2:13 am, Stephen
>                             Woodbridge wrote:
>
>                                          +1, I think these changes make
>                             a lot of sense and as part
>                                          of an OSGeo Technology project
>                             this feels very inclusive.
>
>                                          -Steve W
>
>                                          On 3/3/2016 9:46 AM, Jody
>                             Garnett wrote:
>
>                                              I would like to change the
>                             tone of the page a bit,
>                                              since it "assumes"
>                                              incubation ..
>
>                                                  /OSGeo Labs is an
>                             umbrella for open source
>                                              geospatial software
>                                                  projects that would
>                             like to become OSGeo projects
>                                              in the future, but
>                                                  that aren't ready for
>                             incubation quite yet. It is
>                                              appropriate to
>                                                  submit your new or
>                             experimental project as an
>                                              OSGeo labs project./
>                                                  /
>                                                  /
>                                                  /The volunteers that
>                             work as part of OSGeo Labs
>                                              have the goal of
>                                                  helping OSGeo Labs
>                             Projects qualify for
>                                              incubation. To reach this
>                                                  goal, OSGeo Labs
>                             volunteers help OSGeo Labs
>                                              Projects with the
>                                                  following tasks:
>                                                  /
>
>
>                                              Would become:
>
>                                                  /Welcome to OSGeo
>                             Technology. The projects listed
>                                              here are part of
>                                                  the Open Source
>                             Geospatial Foundation and range
>                                              from new
>                                                  experimental projects
>                             to established pillars of
>                                              our open source
>                                                  ecosystem./
>                                                  /
>                                                  /
>                                                  /All projects here meet
>                             our goals as an
>                                              organization - they are open
>                                                  source (no really we
>                             checked) and are inclusive
>                                              and welcoming to new
>                                                  contributors./
>                                                  /
>                                                  /
>
>                                                  /Projects that go on to
>                             establish excellence in
>                                              community building,
>                                                  documentation, and
>                             governance can enter our
>                                              "incubation" program. /
>
>
>                                              I would also lose the
>                             "status" conditions
>                                              seed/seedling/sapling/adult
>                                              and keep OSGeo Technology
>                             focused on the basics (open
>                                              source &
>                                              inclusive). The status
>                             becomes having the "OSGeo
>                                              Technology" badge nice
>                                              and simple.
>
>                                              Thinking this through a bit
>                             more we have one clear
>                                              reason for projects
>                                              to go through with
>                             incubation - being recognized by
>                                              the board and having
>                                              an OSGeo Officer listed
>                             directly for the project,
>                                              while OSGeo Technology
>                                              projects "share" an officer
>                             (as part of "incubation
>                                              committee").
>                                              --
>                                              Jody Garnett
>
>                                              On 11 February 2016 at
>                             11:04, Landon Blake
>
>                             <sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>
>
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>>
>
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>
>                                                  There is some good
>                             information on what we were
>                                              trying to achieve
>                                                  with the old OSGeo Labs
>                             on the wiki:
>
>                             https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs
>
>                                                  I think most of that
>                             information on the wiki still
>                                              applies. This
>                                                  includes the purpose of
>                             labs, how projects get
>                                              started in labs, what
>                                                  labs is trying to
>                             accomplish, and the criteria to
>                                              determine if your
>                                                  project is a good fit
>                             for labs.
>
>                                                  Does anyone have major
>                             heartburn with what is laid
>                                              out on that wiki
>                                                  page? (I'll rename the
>                             wiki page as soon as we get
>                                              a new name for labs.)
>
>                                                  Landon
>
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>                             <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
>
>                             <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>                             <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>>>
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>
>
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>                                      --
>                                      Cameron Shorter,
>                                      Software and Data Solutions Manager
>                                      LISAsoft
>                                      Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>                                      26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
>                                      P +61 2 9009 5000
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>
>                              --
>                              Cameron Shorter,
>                              Software and Data Solutions Manager
>                              LISAsoft
>                              Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>                              26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
>                              P +61 2 9009 5000
>                         <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>, Wwww.lisasoft.com
>                         <http://Wwww.lisasoft.com>
>                         <http://www.lisasoft.com>,  F +61 2 9009 5099
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>                         --
>                         --
>                         Jody Garnett
>
>
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>
>                 --
>                 Cameron Shorter,
>                 Software and Data Solutions Manager
>                 LISAsoft
>                 Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>                 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
>                 P +61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  W
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