[Incubator] Info on the Old OSGeo Labs

Cameron Shorter cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Sat Mar 12 17:31:11 PST 2016


+0 for using the "OSGeo Community" label to replace "OSGeo Labs". I'm 
drawing a blank on thinking of a better word. Cameron


On 12/03/2016 5:52 am, Stephen Woodbridge wrote:
> I think think Community would meet our needs. +1 for that.
>
> -Steve
>
> On 3/11/2016 1:35 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>> We have a strong negative reaction from Cameron for "Technology", and a
>> strong negative reaction from me for "Builder". That leaves "Community"
>> - it does meet our need of being inclusive and welcoming projects into
>> OSGeo.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>> On 11 March 2016 at 09:52, Landon Blake <sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I know there are some people that don't like the "Technology" name,
>>     but we did hold a vote of committee members. I'll remind everyone
>>     that these three names were tied for the top choice:
>>
>>     "Community Project", "Builder Project" and "Technology Project".
>>
>>     I think we should stick with one of these top 3 and not reopen this
>>     debate on the name. If we keep doing that, we won't make forward
>>     progress. If we need to hold a quick e-mail vote to pick between the
>>     3 names that tied for top choice, then lets do that.
>>
>>     Landon
>>
>>     On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Jody Garnett
>>     <jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Okay I got a naming idea - that should at least work.  I thank
>>         everyone for this difficult discussion - much more important to
>>         set expectations and scope now (then later once the program has
>>         gone live).
>>
>>         I initially liked "Innovator" - sadly it had too much of an RnD
>>         focus and the resulting projects would not come across as
>>         stable. So not especially suitable of pgRouting. Their is also
>>         the danger that established osgeo projects would feel left out
>>         such "innovation" has a nice marketing ring to it - Jeroen
>>         expressed this valid concern.
>>
>>         I liked "Technology" - taking things firmly in the direction of
>>         established (but too busy or too small for incubation). Very
>>         suitable for projects like JTS, PRJ or pgRouting. Cameron
>>         expressed concern on branding confusion with respect to
>>         foundation projects - a table could help mitigate this some what
>>         but if is a valid concern.
>>
>>         I am having a hard time coming up with a new name. Our initial
>>         enthusiasm with a poll missed on the discussion we could put
>>         behind each name.
>>
>>         One Idea I am trying to make work (it does not work) is "Dev"
>>         (not development - but like our dev and devel
>>         <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo> email lists ...). It
>>         has a bit too much of an RnD flavour - when applied to JTS, or
>>         PgRouting the resulting technology does not sound finished. It
>>         does however reflect the open source and community (that is the
>>         people side) of the technology - there is a clear distinction
>>         between foundations project and dev. So it is close - but much
>>         like "builder" it sounds incomplete and not fully acknowledged
>>         as being part of the foundation.
>>
>>         --
>>         Jody Garnett
>>
>>         On 8 March 2016 at 12:30, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Thanks for the support/discussion Daniel/Cameron - I am open
>>             to a word other than "OSGeo Technology".
>>
>>             Many of the other words proposed missed the point of the
>>             exercise... it is more useful to think of a project like
>>             pgRouting <http://pgrouting.org> or PROJ
>>             <https://trac.osgeo.org/proj/> than to think of 100 lines of
>>             javascript.
>>
>>
>>
>>             --
>>             Jody Garnett
>>
>>             On 8 March 2016 at 12:25, Cameron Shorter
>>             <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                 Jody,
>>                 As per Daniel's comment.
>>                 +1 to OSGeo being more inclusive by providing a light
>>                 weight process for joining (in line with your 
>> suggestions)
>>                 -1 for the words "OSGeo Technology". Are you open to
>>                 changing to another word than "Technology"?
>>
>>
>>                 On 9/03/2016 2:22 am, Daniel Morissette wrote:
>>
>>                     Hi Jody,
>>
>>                     FWIW I like the idea of a more inclusive place such
>>                     as the former "OSGeo Labs", I was even one of the
>>                     early supporters of the idea.
>>
>>                     The only concern that I expressed earlier was to
>>                     make sure that terminology and expectations are
>>                     clear for visitors to the site. I don't want this to
>>                     be perceived as a blocker, it was just a
>>                     constructive comment to help clarify the wording to
>>                     make sure that users know what they are getting from
>>                     what we call OSGeo projects vs OSGeo technology.
>>
>>                     Perhaps a comparison page to address the differences
>>                     between Projects vs Technology would help address
>>                     the possible confusion?
>>
>>                     Daniel
>>
>>
>>                     On 2016-03-08 10:13 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>
>>                         We are setting something up different that is
>>                         not OSGeo labs. We are
>>                         validating - that these projects are open source
>>                         and participatory.
>>
>>                         The result is hopefully a larger OSGeo 
>> community.
>>
>>                         This direction comes out of a board discussion
>>                         around being inclusive
>>                         and innovative. It could be the OSGeo Technology
>>                         idea won't fly ...
>>
>>                         Our OSGeo incubation process is set up for
>>                         stability and safety. While I
>>                         respect this it is holding us back from
>>                         including different categories
>>                         of projects.
>>
>>                         I think the larger issue for the board to
>>                         wrestle with is that the
>>                         foundation does not provide enough value to
>>                         projects. While they are
>>                         willing to step up assistance (say incubation
>>                         sprint or external code
>>                         review) we on the incubation list need to look
>>                         at our priorities on who
>>                         we can extend this assistance to.
>>
>>                         I would still like to see projects like
>>                         pgRouting try their hand at
>>                         incubation. I think it is a shame incubation.
>>                         and the foundation, is
>>                         considered hard.
>>
>>                         In fact open source is hard, and we are here to
>>                         help.
>>
>>                         On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 2:35 AM Cameron Shorter
>>                         <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>>                         <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>                         <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>                              Hey Jody,
>>                              I'm actually agreeing with all you are
>>                         suggesting doing with the
>>                              rebranded "OSGeo Labs", except the name
>>                         "OSGeo Technology". This
>>                              name misrepresents the "Self Serve",
>>                         non-validated concept of "OSGeo
>>                              Labs". The name implies "built out of OSGeo
>>                         Projects".  This is a
>>                              dis-service to people who come to our site
>>                         for the first time, a
>>                              dis-service to "OSGeo Projects" who now
>>                         become associated with
>>                              immature projects.
>>
>>                              Pick a more accurate name than "OSGeo
>>                         Technology" and I'd back the
>>                              rest of what you are suggesting.
>>
>>                              Warm regards, Cameron
>>
>>
>>                              On 7/03/2016 9:55 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>
>>                                  This is going to be a tough one Cameron
>>                             ... our brand currently
>>                                  has a reputation for turning projects
>>                             away ... not quality.
>>
>>                                  The long story short is how to respond
>>                             to the direction to be
>>                                  inclusive. We have two strong
>>                             characters on this mailing list with
>>                                  an axe to grind making it difficult for
>>                             projects to be part of
>>                                  OSGeo. I am very keen on projects
>>                             *being* open source, and you are
>>                                  very keen on making projects safe for
>>                             users to adopt (project
>>                                  viability, quality, open standards).
>>
>>                                  I am proposing repurposing "OSGeo Labs"
>>                             (which did not promise
>>                                  anything as a brand and got adopted by
>>                             GeoForAll) as "OSGeo
>>                                  Technology" to focus on the open source
>>                             angle; in order to
>>                                  preserve "OSGeo Projects" (and
>>                             incubation) to focus on the second.
>>
>>                                  We have a tension here between being
>>                             inclusive (read easy) and
>>                                  transparent (which takes effort).
>>
>>                                  How would you like to add
>>                             "transparency" to this mix? We could
>>                                  provide a table with website, download,
>>                             documentation, test
>>                                  results - not sure if that would help
>>                             with transparency?
>>
>>                                  I know we keep coming back to a rating
>>                             system on this mailing list
>>                                  - I recognize your work in this area
>>                             for OSGeo Live with the
>>                                  introduction of black duck metrics. I
>>                             imagine you would also be
>>                                  happy to phrase things as positive
>>                             "badges" (for projects that
>>                                  have documentation, or quality
>>                             assurance, or standards
>>                                  testing).  For quality, documentation
>>                             and so forth I think we are
>>                                  stuck leading by example (and perhaps
>>                             working with the OGC on
>>                                  standards compliance).
>>
>>                                  On 3 March 2016 at 23:57, Cameron 
>> Shorter
>> <<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>                                      Hi Jody,
>>                                      I agree with your suggestion that
>>                             "Old OSGeo Labs" need not
>>                                      have an aim of entering OSGeo
>>                             incubation.
>>                                      However, I object to any project
>>                             becoming associated with
>>                                      OSGeo without it being obvious
>>                             about the level of quality
>>                                      control the project has gone 
>> through.
>>
>>                                      As suggested below, I could knock
>>                             together 100 lines of
>>                                      uncommented, non-working code, give
>>                             it an open source license,
>>                                      and then add a "OSGeo Technology"
>>                             logo to the home page. And
>>                                      most average punters wouldn't know
>>                             the difference between term
>>                                      "OSGeo Project" and "OSGeo
>>                             Technology". This would result in
>>                                      diminishing the current association
>>                             between OSGeo applications
>>                                      and quality, which would be a bad
>>                             thing.
>>
>>                                      I feel "OSGeo Labs", "OSGeo
>>                             Community Builder Projects", or
>>                                      shortened to "OSGeo Builder
>>                             Projects" are less likely to be
>>                                      confused with "OSGeo Incubated"
>>                             projects.
>>
>>                                      Warm regards, Cameron
>>
>>
>>                                      On 4/03/2016 2:13 am, Stephen
>>                             Woodbridge wrote:
>>
>>                                          +1, I think these changes make
>>                             a lot of sense and as part
>>                                          of an OSGeo Technology project
>>                             this feels very inclusive.
>>
>>                                          -Steve W
>>
>>                                          On 3/3/2016 9:46 AM, Jody
>>                             Garnett wrote:
>>
>>                                              I would like to change the
>>                             tone of the page a bit,
>>                                              since it "assumes"
>>                                              incubation ..
>>
>>                                                  /OSGeo Labs is an
>>                             umbrella for open source
>>                                              geospatial software
>>                                                  projects that would
>>                             like to become OSGeo projects
>>                                              in the future, but
>>                                                  that aren't ready for
>>                             incubation quite yet. It is
>>                                              appropriate to
>>                                                  submit your new or
>>                             experimental project as an
>>                                              OSGeo labs project./
>>                                                  /
>>                                                  /
>>                                                  /The volunteers that
>>                             work as part of OSGeo Labs
>>                                              have the goal of
>>                                                  helping OSGeo Labs
>>                             Projects qualify for
>>                                              incubation. To reach this
>>                                                  goal, OSGeo Labs
>>                             volunteers help OSGeo Labs
>>                                              Projects with the
>>                                                  following tasks:
>>                                                  /
>>
>>
>>                                              Would become:
>>
>>                                                  /Welcome to OSGeo
>>                             Technology. The projects listed
>>                                              here are part of
>>                                                  the Open Source
>>                             Geospatial Foundation and range
>>                                              from new
>>                                                  experimental projects
>>                             to established pillars of
>>                                              our open source
>>                                                  ecosystem./
>>                                                  /
>>                                                  /
>>                                                  /All projects here meet
>>                             our goals as an
>>                                              organization - they are 
>> open
>>                                                  source (no really we
>>                             checked) and are inclusive
>>                                              and welcoming to new
>>                                                  contributors./
>>                                                  /
>>                                                  /
>>
>>                                                  /Projects that go on to
>>                             establish excellence in
>>                                              community building,
>>                                                  documentation, and
>>                             governance can enter our
>>                                              "incubation" program. /
>>
>>
>>                                              I would also lose the
>>                             "status" conditions
>> seed/seedling/sapling/adult
>>                                              and keep OSGeo Technology
>>                             focused on the basics (open
>>                                              source &
>>                                              inclusive). The status
>>                             becomes having the "OSGeo
>>                                              Technology" badge nice
>>                                              and simple.
>>
>>                                              Thinking this through a bit
>>                             more we have one clear
>>                                              reason for projects
>>                                              to go through with
>>                             incubation - being recognized by
>>                                              the board and having
>>                                              an OSGeo Officer listed
>>                             directly for the project,
>>                                              while OSGeo Technology
>>                                              projects "share" an officer
>>                             (as part of "incubation
>>                                              committee").
>>                                              --
>>                                              Jody Garnett
>>
>>                                              On 11 February 2016 at
>>                             11:04, Landon Blake
>>
>>                             <sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>
>>
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>>
>>
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>>                                                  There is some good
>>                             information on what we were
>>                                              trying to achieve
>>                                                  with the old OSGeo Labs
>>                             on the wiki:
>>
>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs
>>
>>                                                  I think most of that
>>                             information on the wiki still
>>                                              applies. This
>>                                                  includes the purpose of
>>                             labs, how projects get
>>                                              started in labs, what
>>                                                  labs is trying to
>>                             accomplish, and the criteria to
>>                                              determine if your
>>                                                  project is a good fit
>>                             for labs.
>>
>>                                                  Does anyone have major
>>                             heartburn with what is laid
>>                                              out on that wiki
>>                                                  page? (I'll rename the
>>                             wiki page as soon as we get
>>                                              a new name for labs.)
>>
>>                                                  Landon
>>
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>>                                      --
>>                                      Cameron Shorter,
>>                                      Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>                                      LISAsoft
>>                                      Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>                                      26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 
>> 2009
>>
>>                                      P +61 2 9009 5000
>>                             <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>
>> <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  W
>>                             www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>
>>                             <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
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>>
>>
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>>
>>                              --
>>                              Cameron Shorter,
>>                              Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>                              LISAsoft
>>                              Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>                              26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>
>>                              P +61 2 9009 5000
>>                         <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>, Wwww.lisasoft.com
>>                         <http://Wwww.lisasoft.com>
>>                         <http://www.lisasoft.com>,  F +61 2 9009 5099
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>>
>>                         --
>>                         --
>>                         Jody Garnett
>>
>>
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>>
>>                 --
>>                 Cameron Shorter,
>>                 Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>                 LISAsoft
>>                 Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>                 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>
>>                 P +61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  W
>>                 www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>,  F +61 2
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