[Industry] development model vs business model [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Peter Baumann
baumann at rasdaman.com
Tue Aug 26 23:44:42 PDT 2014
good point! Focusing on exactly one model and condemning all others leads us
into the dogmatic corner. The world is colorfoul, and there is plenty of room
for creativity and business models.
I do like the "fair trade" term, and I'd put it up as a label (not an
obligation) similar to ISO 9000 certification, or better: CMMI because then you
can assign a degree of achievement rather than a boolean. Then agencies, eg, can
establish a policy of favouring "fair trade" offers.
-Peter
On 08/27/2014 08:08 AM, Karel Charvat wrote:
>
> Hi, I don't know, if this is right way. If we will put any such obligation to
> FOSS, then you will only give arguments to proprietary software producers and
> mainly ESRI against FOSS.
>
> I think, that there is necessary to look for alternative sources of financing:
>
> Something like dual licencing or direct support from developers for end user
> and developers. I think, that something such is used outside of GI community
> by Liferay or inside of community offer such solution Geoserver, if I am right
>
> Training and mainly certification. In many public tenders you are required
> demonstrate, that you are certified as certified developers. This could be
> income and also chance to improve position of OS against proprietary
>
> And for starting projects are important grants, Universities, national,
> European, NASA, Pentagon others.
>
>
> Most of successful projects started with grants
>
> Karel
>
> *From:*industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Bannerman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:44 AM
> *To:* Cameron Shorter; industry at lists.osgeo.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Industry] development model vs business model [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
> I agree with the general gist of this thread.
>
> The obligations are to more than just companies reselling open source. It also
> relates to users and user organisations. See related thread initiated by Dirk
> on Discuss [1].
>
> We need a simple message relating to the 'total cost of ownership'. All
> software costs money to develop and maintain. The cost borne by user
> organisations could well be contribution back to the relevant open source
> communities. Once they get experience, this will in turn lead to opportunities
> for getting faster return and implementation on the functionality that they
> require operationally.
>
> Following on from Cameron's comments on government policy, we are already
> seeing policies in place that recommend contributions back to open source
> communities, e.g.:
>
> - Australian Government Open Source Policy [1] Principle 3 (Section 3.1 p11) p
> states "Australian Government agencies will actively participate in open source
>
> software communities and contribute back where appropriate.".
>
> I understand that other governments have similar policies.
>
> Therefore the 'fair trade' message could well be helpful.
>
> Bruce
>
> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-July/013043.html
>
> [2] http://www.finance.gov.au/files/2012/04/AGuidetoOpenSourceSoftware.pdf
>
> *From: *Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 26 August 2014 7:22
> *To: *"industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>"
> <industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
>
> I like the concept of defining "Fair Trade Open Source".
> But I think it needs to be more than "we use open source so we should give
> a bit back to the community". Almost every developer, and many managers
> will agree with that statement, but when it comes to final signoff on a
> program of work, and there is a question between keeping extra features or
> keeping the "give back to the community", keeping features wins.
>
> In order to be successful, I envisage a "Fair Trade Open Source" should be
> explained as a value proposition to the business, and the message will
> change for each customer.
>
> For large programs, typically from government, buying into Fair Trade
> should start with a policy statement which explains:
> * Our business is strategically improved by X, Y, and Z Open Source projects
> * When these projects do well, we do well
> * A successful Open Source project includes more than our list of
> features, but also a strong community and set of processes, and testing, etc
> * As such, we will invest X% of our budget on Business As Usual open
> source tasks which includes A, B, C.
>
> This policy statement can then be referenced during purchasing and
> development cycles to justify selection of "give a bit back to the
> community" over extra features.
>
> On 26/08/2014 12:21 am, Camille Acey wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking on this list for a bit, but just wanted to speak up
> and mention that my friend and colleague Sumana Harihareswara gave a
> talk at 2010 OpenSource Bridge entitled "The Second Step: HOWTO
> encourage open source work at for-profits
> <http://opensourcebridge.org/wiki/2010/The_Second_Step:_HOWTO_encourage_open_source_work_at_for-profits>".
> There is still a lot of education that needs to be done in order to
> empower and encourage companies that use FLOSS to contribute back to
> the FLOSS projects. IMHO, that is where the work needs to be focused .
> Hopefully that talk can help you in getting a slide deck and/or other
> such marketing and education materials together.
>
> Cheers,
>
> *Camille E. Acey*
>
> Sales Operations Specialist | Boundless
>
> camille at boundlessgeo.com <mailto:camille at boundlessgeo.com> - 917.460.7197
>
> @boundlessgeo
>
> <https://twitter.com/boundlessgeo>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:32:15 +0200
> From: Peter Baumann <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
> To: Jachym Cepicky <jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>, Karel Charvat
> <charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>
> Cc: industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> Message-ID: <53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de
> <mailto:53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> extremely important discussion, great to see the pieces come together!
> We're getting at it: like any organization acting in the public, OSGeo
> needs a
> comprehensive, carefully crafted communication strategy, including
> clear-cut
> messages suitable for the target groups (not ourselves!), manifest, eg, in
> ready-made slide decks, posters and flyers that can be readily printed &
> distributed; plus well-defined, efficient decision processes - ie, the
> board
> needs a mandate to act (& delegate).
>
> my 2 cents,
> Peter
>
> PS: I agree that "fair trade open source" is nice, but IMHO we
> shouldn't open
> yet another challenge while the basic one - effective market
> communication - is
> still unsolved.
>
>
> On 08/25/2014 08:48 AM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:
> >
> > Not so fast, there are already rules, how to speak on behalf of OSGeo.
> > Everybody always drops an e-mail to the list, and informs/asks for
> permission
> > to speak on behalf of OSGeo.
> >
> > Board members are going to some events, but as already said, we have big
> > community of autonomous people and this is our strength.
> >
> > So, once you would like to have OSGeo presented on some event, ask
> in the list
> > and talk about it.
> >
> > What we are missing are some rules regarding our brand and
> representation used
> > on business cards ... Funny, topic actually
> >
> > Jachym
> >
> > Send from cellphone
> >
> > --
> > Jachym Cepicky
> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
> >
> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
> >
> > On Aug 25, 2014 2:19 AM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
> <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>
> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with this, but on other side, we need some rules how to
> do this. I
> > was in past in leadership of other organisation EFITA and now I
> am in
> > leadership of Club of Ossiach. But in any case, there are
> necessary to
> > define rules, how to go, how to speak on behalf of community. It
> is not
> > good and impossible if for example anybody will speak or make
> > presentation on behalf of Community. In such case, it could be
> chaos. For
> > example to have presentation on conferences or eventually
> organise some
> > exhibition has to be task of responsible persons (Probably board of
> > President), I can promote OSGEO as part of our activities, but I
> cannot go
> > for example to European Commission and speak on behalf of OSGEO.
> Every
> > time some responsibility is necessary
> >
> > Karel
> >
> > *From:*Jachym Cepicky [mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>]
> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:31 PM
> > *To:* Karel Charvat
> > *Cc:* industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>; Even
> > Rouault; dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>>
> > *Subject:* RE: [Industry] development model vs business model
> >
> > Hi Karel,
> >
> > As you said, I try to promote OSGeo as much as possible, but it
> never is
> > one man show. You are registered as OSGeo advocate as well, as
> well as
> > other community members. It was always said, that community is
> our biggest
> > strength. And this is the case.
> >
> > Yes, we have to step out of our nich, to reach other
> communities. But
> > Foss4g-europe is about our community, to support it.
> >
> > Just 2 cents
> >
> > Jachym
> >
> > Send from cellphone
> >
> > --
> > Jachym Cepicky
> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
> >
> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
> >
> > On Aug 24, 2014 3:43 PM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
> <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>
> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I would like make some comments from position of business. I
> am new in
> > this forum, but I am long time involved as manager in
> integration of
> > system and development of software (mainly OS}. We are using
> OSGEO
> > products and we are also trying to put our development towards
> > community, so support OS development (not OSGEO products,
> there we
> > have only small contribution).
> > But I have to say, that not many others companies in Czech
> are doing
> > the same and probably they don't plan to do the some. I am
> sure, that
> > most of them respect license, but they use OS in the some way as
> > proprietary software, only without obligation to pay (and
> this is main
> > reason).
> > It is nice idea to start promote FOSS Fair trade branch, but
> what is
> > necessary to start build OSGEPO brand. I am afraid, that most of
> > developers and also customers (public servant's} are aware
> about OSGEO.
> > And FOSS4GI event (global or European) are not way, how to reach
> > community. I am sure, that information about FOSS4GI
> (Europe) is well
> > reaching community OSGEO community, but not to much outside.
> So there
> > is necessary, that OSGEO will be active outside of FOSS4GI
> events,
> > local national European, Global. Only this is the way.
> > I think that in Czech Jachym start to do it in good way,
> but all is
> > long process
> > Karel
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] On Behalf Of Dirk Frigne
> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:28 AM
> > To: Even Rouault; industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> > <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> >
> > Even,
> >
> > On 22-08-14 21:31, Even Rouault wrote:
> > > Le vendredi 22 ao?t 2014 15:45:45, Mateusz ?oskot a ?crit :
> > >> On 22 August 2014 14:28, Dirk Frigne
> <dirk.frigne at geosparc.com <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>
> > <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>>> wrote:
> > >>> reacting on the comments of Mateusz:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 22-08-14 12:03, Dirk Frigne wrote:
> > >>>> Sorry for crossposting, but this snippet from the thread
> > [...]
> > >
> > > If we were to deliver a "Fair trade open source" label (or
> more
> > > specifically "Fair trade of OSGeo software"), it would be
> difficult
> > > to do that in a ... fair way, because you would have to
> measure
> > > somehow the value contributed back to OSGeo with respect
> to the
> > value made by using OSGeo software.
> > The fact something will be difficult does not mean impossible.
> > The first thing we would have to do is to define why open
> source (in
> > general - but as far as we are concerned for Geo) is
> important, and
> > what is "fair" and what is not.
> > This can be done by listening to people who are using open
> source for
> > business. Why they choose for OSGeo software, and what they
> think is
> > fair (or only legal).
> >
> > I think a good opportunity to start with this is the
> proposed business
> > track on the next FOSS4G-Europe conference. The idea's for
> such a
> > business track are being discussed in the thread "when and
> where" [1].
> > From such testimonials we can learn what "we" define as
> "Fair" and
> > establish guidelines, which when followed allows a business
> entity, an
> > academic user or an administration to label themselves as
> respecting
> > these guidelines.
> > This could be a good first start for this difficult task.
> >
> > >
> > > Even
> > D.
> > [1]
> >
> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference-europe/2014-August/000173.html
> >
> > --
> > Yours sincerely,
> >
> >
> > ir. Dirk Frigne
> > CEO
> >
> > Geosparc n.v.
> > Brugsesteenweg 587
> > B-9030 Ghent
> > Tel: +32 9 236 60 18 <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%2018>
> <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060% <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%25>
>
> 2018>
> > GSM: +32 495 508 799 <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
> >
> > http://www.geomajas.org
> > http://www.geosparc.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Industry mailing list
> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Baumann
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
> <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
> tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax:
> +49-421-200-493178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
> www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
> <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
> <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer,
> AD 1083)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> --
>
> Cameron Shorter,
>
> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>
> LISAsoft
>
> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>
> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
>
>
> P +61 2 9009 5000, Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
>
>
>
> This body part will be downloaded on demand.
--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
"A brilliant idea is a job halfdone."
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