[Industry] development model vs business model [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Jachym Cepicky
jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
Tue Aug 26 23:52:09 PDT 2014
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Jachym Cepicky
e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
URL: http://les-ejk.cz
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On Aug 27, 2014 8:50 AM, "Peter Baumann" <baumann at rasdaman.com> wrote:
> good point! Focusing on exactly one model and condemning all others
> leads us into the dogmatic corner. The world is colorfoul, and there is
> plenty of room for creativity and business models.
> I do like the "fair trade" term, and I'd put it up as a label (not an
> obligation) similar to ISO 9000 certification, or better: CMMI because then
> you can assign a degree of achievement rather than a boolean. Then
> agencies, eg, can establish a policy of favouring "fair trade" offers.
>
> -Peter
>
>
> On 08/27/2014 08:08 AM, Karel Charvat wrote:
>
> Hi, I don't know, if this is right way. If we will put any such
> obligation to FOSS, then you will only give arguments to proprietary
> software producers and mainly ESRI against FOSS.
>
> I think, that there is necessary to look for alternative sources of
> financing:
>
> Something like dual licencing or direct support from developers for end
> user and developers. I think, that something such is used outside of GI
> community by Liferay or inside of community offer such solution Geoserver,
> if I am right
>
> Training and mainly certification. In many public tenders you are required
> demonstrate, that you are certified as certified developers. This could be
> income and also chance to improve position of OS against proprietary
>
> And for starting projects are important grants, Universities, national,
> European, NASA, Pentagon others.
>
>
> Most of successful projects started with grants
>
> Karel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [
> mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org <industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Bruce Bannerman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:44 AM
> *To:* Cameron Shorter; industry at lists.osgeo.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
>
>
> I agree with the general gist of this thread.
>
>
>
> The obligations are to more than just companies reselling open source. It
> also relates to users and user organisations. See related thread initiated
> by Dirk on Discuss [1].
>
>
>
> We need a simple message relating to the 'total cost of ownership'. All
> software costs money to develop and maintain. The cost borne by user
> organisations could well be contribution back to the relevant open source
> communities. Once they get experience, this will in turn lead to
> opportunities for getting faster return and implementation on the
> functionality that they require operationally.
>
>
>
> Following on from Cameron's comments on government policy, we are already
> seeing policies in place that recommend contributions back to open source
> communities, e.g.:
>
>
>
> - Australian Government Open Source Policy [1] Principle 3 (Section 3.1
> p11) p states "Australian Government agencies will actively participate
> in open source
>
> software communities and contribute back where appropriate.".
>
>
>
> I understand that other governments have similar policies.
>
>
>
>
>
> Therefore the 'fair trade' message could well be helpful.
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-July/013043.html
>
>
>
> [2] http://www.finance.gov.au/files/2012/04/AGuidetoOpenSourceSoftware.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 26 August 2014 7:22
> *To: *"industry at lists.osgeo.org" <industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
>
>
>
> I like the concept of defining "Fair Trade Open Source".
> But I think it needs to be more than "we use open source so we should give
> a bit back to the community". Almost every developer, and many managers
> will agree with that statement, but when it comes to final signoff on a
> program of work, and there is a question between keeping extra features or
> keeping the "give back to the community", keeping features wins.
>
> In order to be successful, I envisage a "Fair Trade Open Source" should be
> explained as a value proposition to the business, and the message will
> change for each customer.
>
> For large programs, typically from government, buying into Fair Trade
> should start with a policy statement which explains:
> * Our business is strategically improved by X, Y, and Z Open Source
> projects
> * When these projects do well, we do well
> * A successful Open Source project includes more than our list of
> features, but also a strong community and set of processes, and testing, etc
> * As such, we will invest X% of our budget on Business As Usual open
> source tasks which includes A, B, C.
>
> This policy statement can then be referenced during purchasing and
> development cycles to justify selection of "give a bit back to the
> community" over extra features.
>
> On 26/08/2014 12:21 am, Camille Acey wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking on this list for a bit, but just wanted to speak up and
> mention that my friend and colleague Sumana Harihareswara gave a talk at
> 2010 OpenSource Bridge entitled "The Second Step: HOWTO encourage open
> source work at for-profits
> <http://opensourcebridge.org/wiki/2010/The_Second_Step:_HOWTO_encourage_open_source_work_at_for-profits>".
> There is still a lot of education that needs to be done in order to empower
> and encourage companies that use FLOSS to contribute back to the FLOSS
> projects. IMHO, that is where the work needs to be focused . Hopefully
> that talk can help you in getting a slide deck and/or other such marketing
> and education materials together.
>
> Cheers,
>
> *Camille E. Acey*
>
> Sales Operations Specialist | Boundless
>
> camille at boundlessgeo.com - 917.460.7197
>
> @boundlessgeo
>
> <https://twitter.com/boundlessgeo>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:32:15 +0200
> From: Peter Baumann <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
> To: Jachym Cepicky <jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>, Karel Charvat
> <charvat at ccss.cz>
> Cc: industry at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> Message-ID: <53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> extremely important discussion, great to see the pieces come together!
> We're getting at it: like any organization acting in the public, OSGeo
> needs a
> comprehensive, carefully crafted communication strategy, including
> clear-cut
> messages suitable for the target groups (not ourselves!), manifest, eg, in
> ready-made slide decks, posters and flyers that can be readily printed &
> distributed; plus well-defined, efficient decision processes - ie, the
> board
> needs a mandate to act (& delegate).
>
> my 2 cents,
> Peter
>
> PS: I agree that "fair trade open source" is nice, but IMHO we shouldn't
> open
> yet another challenge while the basic one - effective market communication
> - is
> still unsolved.
>
>
> On 08/25/2014 08:48 AM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:
> >
> > Not so fast, there are already rules, how to speak on behalf of OSGeo.
> > Everybody always drops an e-mail to the list, and informs/asks for
> permission
> > to speak on behalf of OSGeo.
> >
> > Board members are going to some events, but as already said, we have big
> > community of autonomous people and this is our strength.
> >
> > So, once you would like to have OSGeo presented on some event, ask in
> the list
> > and talk about it.
> >
> > What we are missing are some rules regarding our brand and
> representation used
> > on business cards ... Funny, topic actually
> >
> > Jachym
> >
> > Send from cellphone
> >
> > --
> > Jachym Cepicky
> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
> >
> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
> >
> > On Aug 25, 2014 2:19 AM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with this, but on other side, we need some rules how to do
> this. I
> > was in past in leadership of other organisation EFITA and now I am
> in
> > leadership of Club of Ossiach. But in any case, there are necessary
> to
> > define rules, how to go, how to speak on behalf of community. It is
> not
> > good and impossible if for example anybody will speak or make
> > presentation on behalf of Community. In such case, it could be
> chaos. For
> > example to have presentation on conferences or eventually organise
> some
> > exhibition has to be task of responsible persons (Probably board of
> > President), I can promote OSGEO as part of our activities, but I
> cannot go
> > for example to European Commission and speak on behalf of OSGEO.
> Every
> > time some responsibility is necessary
> >
> > Karel
> >
> > *From:*Jachym Cepicky [mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
> > <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>]
> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:31 PM
> > *To:* Karel Charvat
> > *Cc:* industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>;
> Even
> > Rouault; dirk.frigne at geosparc.com <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>
> > *Subject:* RE: [Industry] development model vs business model
> >
> > Hi Karel,
> >
> > As you said, I try to promote OSGeo as much as possible, but it
> never is
> > one man show. You are registered as OSGeo advocate as well, as well
> as
> > other community members. It was always said, that community is our
> biggest
> > strength. And this is the case.
> >
> > Yes, we have to step out of our nich, to reach other communities. But
> > Foss4g-europe is about our community, to support it.
> >
> > Just 2 cents
> >
> > Jachym
> >
> > Send from cellphone
> >
> > --
> > Jachym Cepicky
> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
> >
> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
> >
> > On Aug 24, 2014 3:43 PM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I would like make some comments from position of business. I am
> new in
> > this forum, but I am long time involved as manager in
> integration of
> > system and development of software (mainly OS}. We are using
> OSGEO
> > products and we are also trying to put our development towards
> > community, so support OS development (not OSGEO products, there
> we
> > have only small contribution).
> > But I have to say, that not many others companies in Czech are
> doing
> > the same and probably they don't plan to do the some. I am sure,
> that
> > most of them respect license, but they use OS in the some way as
> > proprietary software, only without obligation to pay (and this
> is main
> > reason).
> > It is nice idea to start promote FOSS Fair trade branch, but
> what is
> > necessary to start build OSGEPO brand. I am afraid, that most of
> > developers and also customers (public servant's} are aware about
> OSGEO.
> > And FOSS4GI event (global or European) are not way, how to reach
> > community. I am sure, that information about FOSS4GI (Europe) is
> well
> > reaching community OSGEO community, but not to much outside. So
> there
> > is necessary, that OSGEO will be active outside of FOSS4GI
> events,
> > local national European, Global. Only this is the way.
> > I think that in Czech Jachym start to do it in good way, but
> all is
> > long process
> > Karel
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> > [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Dirk
> Frigne
> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:28 AM
> > To: Even Rouault; industry at lists.osgeo.org
> > <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> >
> > Even,
> >
> > On 22-08-14 21:31, Even Rouault wrote:
> > > Le vendredi 22 ao?t 2014 15:45:45, Mateusz ?oskot a ?crit :
> > >> On 22 August 2014 14:28, Dirk Frigne <
> dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> > <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>> wrote:
> > >>> reacting on the comments of Mateusz:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 22-08-14 12:03, Dirk Frigne wrote:
> > >>>> Sorry for crossposting, but this snippet from the thread
> > [...]
> > >
> > > If we were to deliver a "Fair trade open source" label (or more
> > > specifically "Fair trade of OSGeo software"), it would be
> difficult
> > > to do that in a ... fair way, because you would have to measure
> > > somehow the value contributed back to OSGeo with respect to the
> > value made by using OSGeo software.
> > The fact something will be difficult does not mean impossible.
> > The first thing we would have to do is to define why open source
> (in
> > general - but as far as we are concerned for Geo) is important,
> and
> > what is "fair" and what is not.
> > This can be done by listening to people who are using open
> source for
> > business. Why they choose for OSGeo software, and what they
> think is
> > fair (or only legal).
> >
> > I think a good opportunity to start with this is the proposed
> business
> > track on the next FOSS4G-Europe conference. The idea's for such a
> > business track are being discussed in the thread "when and
> where" [1].
> > From such testimonials we can learn what "we" define as "Fair"
> and
> > establish guidelines, which when followed allows a business
> entity, an
> > academic user or an administration to label themselves as
> respecting
> > these guidelines.
> > This could be a good first start for this difficult task.
> >
> > >
> > > Even
> > D.
> > [1]
> >
> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference-europe/2014-August/000173.html
> >
> > --
> > Yours sincerely,
> >
> >
> > ir. Dirk Frigne
> > CEO
> >
> > Geosparc n.v.
> > Brugsesteenweg 587
> > B-9030 Ghent
> > Tel: +32 9 236 60 18 <%2B32%209%20236%2060%2018> <
> tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060% <%2B32%209%20236%2060%25>
>
> 2018>
> > GSM: +32 495 508 799 <%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799> <%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
> >
> > http://www.geomajas.org
> > http://www.geosparc.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Industry mailing list
> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Industry mailing list
> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Baumann
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
> www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD
> 1083)
>
>
>
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>
> --
>
> Cameron Shorter,
>
> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>
> LISAsoft
>
> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>
> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
>
>
> P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099
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>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Baumann
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
> www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
> "A brilliant idea is a job halfdone."
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