[Industry] development model vs business model [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Dirk Frigne
dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
Wed Aug 27 01:30:06 PDT 2014
+1 for the "label" idea.
@Bruce, Peter: +1 for "no one size fits all"
On 27-08-14 08:44, Peter Baumann wrote:
> good point! Focusing on exactly one model and condemning all others
> leads us into the dogmatic corner. The world is colorfoul, and there
> is plenty of room for creativity and business models.
> I do like the "fair trade" term, and I'd put it up as a label (not an
> obligation) similar to ISO 9000 certification, or better: CMMI because
> then you can assign a degree of achievement rather than a boolean.
> Then agencies, eg, can establish a policy of favouring "fair trade"
> offers.
>
> -Peter
>
>
> On 08/27/2014 08:08 AM, Karel Charvat wrote:
>>
>> Hi, I don’t know, if this is right way. If we will put any such
>> obligation to FOSS, then you will only give arguments to proprietary
>> software producers and mainly ESRI against FOSS.
>>
>> I think, that there is necessary to look for alternative sources of
>> financing:
>>
>> Something like dual licencing or direct support from developers for
>> end user and developers. I think, that something such is used outside
>> of GI community by Liferay or inside of community offer such solution
>> Geoserver, if I am right
>>
>> Training and mainly certification. In many public tenders you are
>> required demonstrate, that you are certified as certified developers.
>> This could be income and also chance to improve position of OS
>> against proprietary
>>
>> And for starting projects are important grants, Universities,
>> national, European, NASA, Pentagon others.
>>
>>
>> Most of successful projects started with grants
>>
>> Karel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Bannerman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:44 AM
>> *To:* Cameron Shorter; industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
>> [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with the general gist of this thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> The obligations are to more than just companies reselling open
>> source. It also relates to users and user organisations. See related
>> thread initiated by Dirk on Discuss [1].
>>
>>
>>
>> We need a simple message relating to the ‘total cost of ownership’.
>> All software costs money to develop and maintain. The cost borne by
>> user organisations could well be contribution back to the relevant
>> open source communities. Once they get experience, this will in turn
>> lead to opportunities for getting faster return and implementation on
>> the functionality that they require operationally.
>>
>>
>>
>> Following on from Cameron’s comments on government policy, we are
>> already seeing policies in place that recommend contributions back to
>> open source communities, e.g.:
>>
>>
>>
>> - Australian Government Open Source Policy [1] Principle 3 (Section
>> 3.1 p11) p states “Australian Government agencies will actively
>> participate in open source
>>
>> software communities and contribute back where appropriate.”.
>>
>>
>>
>> I understand that other governments have similar policies.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Therefore the ‘fair trade’ message could well be helpful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-July/013043.html
>>
>>
>>
>> [2] http://www.finance.gov.au/files/2012/04/AGuidetoOpenSourceSoftware.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 26 August 2014 7:22
>> *To: *"industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>"
>> <industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
>>
>>
>>
>> I like the concept of defining "Fair Trade Open Source".
>> But I think it needs to be more than "we use open source so we
>> should give a bit back to the community". Almost every developer,
>> and many managers will agree with that statement, but when it
>> comes to final signoff on a program of work, and there is a
>> question between keeping extra features or keeping the "give back
>> to the community", keeping features wins.
>>
>> In order to be successful, I envisage a "Fair Trade Open Source"
>> should be explained as a value proposition to the business, and
>> the message will change for each customer.
>>
>> For large programs, typically from government, buying into Fair
>> Trade should start with a policy statement which explains:
>> * Our business is strategically improved by X, Y, and Z Open
>> Source projects
>> * When these projects do well, we do well
>> * A successful Open Source project includes more than our list of
>> features, but also a strong community and set of processes, and
>> testing, etc
>> * As such, we will invest X% of our budget on Business As Usual
>> open source tasks which includes A, B, C.
>>
>> This policy statement can then be referenced during purchasing
>> and development cycles to justify selection of "give a bit back
>> to the community" over extra features.
>>
>> On 26/08/2014 12:21 am, Camille Acey wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been lurking on this list for a bit, but just wanted to
>> speak up and mention that my friend and colleague Sumana
>> Harihareswara gave a talk at 2010 OpenSource Bridge entitled
>> "The Second Step: HOWTO encourage open source work at
>> for-profits
>> <http://opensourcebridge.org/wiki/2010/The_Second_Step:_HOWTO_encourage_open_source_work_at_for-profits>".
>> There is still a lot of education that needs to be done in
>> order to empower and encourage companies that use FLOSS to
>> contribute back to the FLOSS projects. IMHO, that is where
>> the work needs to be focused . Hopefully that talk can help
>> you in getting a slide deck and/or other such marketing and
>> education materials together.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> *Camille E. Acey*
>>
>> Sales Operations Specialist | Boundless
>>
>> camille at boundlessgeo.com <mailto:camille at boundlessgeo.com> -
>> 917.460.7197
>>
>> @boundlessgeo
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/boundlessgeo>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:32:15 +0200
>> From: Peter Baumann <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
>> To: Jachym Cepicky <jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>, Karel Charvat
>> <charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>
>> Cc: industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
>> Message-ID: <53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> extremely important discussion, great to see the pieces come
>> together!
>> We're getting at it: like any organization acting in the
>> public, OSGeo needs a
>> comprehensive, carefully crafted communication strategy,
>> including clear-cut
>> messages suitable for the target groups (not ourselves!),
>> manifest, eg, in
>> ready-made slide decks, posters and flyers that can be
>> readily printed &
>> distributed; plus well-defined, efficient decision processes
>> - ie, the board
>> needs a mandate to act (& delegate).
>>
>> my 2 cents,
>> Peter
>>
>> PS: I agree that "fair trade open source" is nice, but IMHO
>> we shouldn't open
>> yet another challenge while the basic one - effective market
>> communication - is
>> still unsolved.
>>
>>
>> On 08/25/2014 08:48 AM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:
>> >
>> > Not so fast, there are already rules, how to speak on
>> behalf of OSGeo.
>> > Everybody always drops an e-mail to the list, and
>> informs/asks for permission
>> > to speak on behalf of OSGeo.
>> >
>> > Board members are going to some events, but as already
>> said, we have big
>> > community of autonomous people and this is our strength.
>> >
>> > So, once you would like to have OSGeo presented on some
>> event, ask in the list
>> > and talk about it.
>> >
>> > What we are missing are some rules regarding our brand and
>> representation used
>> > on business cards ... Funny, topic actually
>> >
>> > Jachym
>> >
>> > Send from cellphone
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jachym Cepicky
>> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
>> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
>> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
>> >
>> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS
>> -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
>> >
>> > On Aug 25, 2014 2:19 AM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
>> <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>
>> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree with this, but on other side, we need some
>> rules how to do this. I
>> > was in past in leadership of other organisation EFITA
>> and now I am in
>> > leadership of Club of Ossiach. But in any case, there
>> are necessary to
>> > define rules, how to go, how to speak on behalf of
>> community. It is not
>> > good and impossible if for example anybody will speak
>> or make
>> > presentation on behalf of Community. In such case, it
>> could be chaos. For
>> > example to have presentation on conferences or
>> eventually organise some
>> > exhibition has to be task of responsible persons
>> (Probably board of
>> > President), I can promote OSGEO as part of our
>> activities, but I cannot go
>> > for example to European Commission and speak on behalf
>> of OSGEO. Every
>> > time some responsibility is necessary
>> >
>> > Karel
>> >
>> > *From:*Jachym Cepicky [mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>
>> > <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>]
>> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:31 PM
>> > *To:* Karel Charvat
>> > *Cc:* industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
>> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>; Even
>> > Rouault; dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
>> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>
>> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
>> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>>
>> > *Subject:* RE: [Industry] development model vs business
>> model
>> >
>> > Hi Karel,
>> >
>> > As you said, I try to promote OSGeo as much as
>> possible, but it never is
>> > one man show. You are registered as OSGeo advocate as
>> well, as well as
>> > other community members. It was always said, that
>> community is our biggest
>> > strength. And this is the case.
>> >
>> > Yes, we have to step out of our nich, to reach other
>> communities. But
>> > Foss4g-europe is about our community, to support it.
>> >
>> > Just 2 cents
>> >
>> > Jachym
>> >
>> > Send from cellphone
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jachym Cepicky
>> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
>> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
>> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
>> >
>> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS
>> -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
>> >
>> > On Aug 24, 2014 3:43 PM, "Karel Charvat"
>> <charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>
>> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> > I would like make some comments from position of
>> business. I am new in
>> > this forum, but I am long time involved as manager
>> in integration of
>> > system and development of software (mainly OS}. We
>> are using OSGEO
>> > products and we are also trying to put our
>> development towards
>> > community, so support OS development (not OSGEO
>> products, there we
>> > have only small contribution).
>> > But I have to say, that not many others companies
>> in Czech are doing
>> > the same and probably they don't plan to do the
>> some. I am sure, that
>> > most of them respect license, but they use OS in
>> the some way as
>> > proprietary software, only without obligation to
>> pay (and this is main
>> > reason).
>> > It is nice idea to start promote FOSS Fair trade
>> branch, but what is
>> > necessary to start build OSGEPO brand. I am afraid,
>> that most of
>> > developers and also customers (public servant's}
>> are aware about OSGEO.
>> > And FOSS4GI event (global or European) are not way,
>> how to reach
>> > community. I am sure, that information about
>> FOSS4GI (Europe) is well
>> > reaching community OSGEO community, but not to much
>> outside. So there
>> > is necessary, that OSGEO will be active outside of
>> FOSS4GI events,
>> > local national European, Global. Only this is the way.
>> > I think that in Czech Jachym start to do it in
>> good way, but all is
>> > long process
>> > Karel
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] On Behalf Of Dirk
>> Frigne
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:28 AM
>> > To: Even Rouault; industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs
>> business model
>> >
>> > Even,
>> >
>> > On 22-08-14 21:31, Even Rouault wrote:
>> > > Le vendredi 22 ao?t 2014 15:45:45, Mateusz ?oskot
>> a ?crit :
>> > >> On 22 August 2014 14:28, Dirk Frigne
>> <dirk.frigne at geosparc.com <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>
>> > <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
>> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>>> wrote:
>> > >>> reacting on the comments of Mateusz:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On 22-08-14 12:03, Dirk Frigne wrote:
>> > >>>> Sorry for crossposting, but this snippet from
>> the thread
>> > [...]
>> > >
>> > > If we were to deliver a "Fair trade open source"
>> label (or more
>> > > specifically "Fair trade of OSGeo software"), it
>> would be difficult
>> > > to do that in a ... fair way, because you would
>> have to measure
>> > > somehow the value contributed back to OSGeo with
>> respect to the
>> > value made by using OSGeo software.
>> > The fact something will be difficult does not mean
>> impossible.
>> > The first thing we would have to do is to define
>> why open source (in
>> > general - but as far as we are concerned for Geo)
>> is important, and
>> > what is "fair" and what is not.
>> > This can be done by listening to people who are
>> using open source for
>> > business. Why they choose for OSGeo software, and
>> what they think is
>> > fair (or only legal).
>> >
>> > I think a good opportunity to start with this is
>> the proposed business
>> > track on the next FOSS4G-Europe conference. The
>> idea's for such a
>> > business track are being discussed in the thread
>> "when and where" [1].
>> > From such testimonials we can learn what "we"
>> define as "Fair" and
>> > establish guidelines, which when followed allows a
>> business entity, an
>> > academic user or an administration to label
>> themselves as respecting
>> > these guidelines.
>> > This could be a good first start for this difficult
>> task.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Even
>> > D.
>> > [1]
>> >
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference-europe/2014-August/000173.html
>> >
>> > --
>> > Yours sincerely,
>> >
>> >
>> > ir. Dirk Frigne
>> > CEO
>> >
>> > Geosparc n.v.
>> > Brugsesteenweg 587
>> > B-9030 Ghent
>> > Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
>> <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%2018> <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%
>> <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%25>
>>
>> 2018>
>> > GSM: +32 495 508 799 <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
>> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
>> >
>> > http://www.geomajas.org
>> > http://www.geosparc.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Industry mailing list
>> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
>> <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Industry mailing list
>> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Baumann
>> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>> <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
>> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
>> tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax:
>> +49-421-200-493178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
>> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>> www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail:
>> baumann at rasdaman.com <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
>> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile:
>> +49-173-5837882 <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
>> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola
>> incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei
>> reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi
>> parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Industry mailing list
>>
>> Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Cameron Shorter,
>>
>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>
>> LISAsoft
>>
>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>
>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>
>>
>>
>> P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
>>
>>
>>
>> This body part will be downloaded on demand.
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Baumann
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
> www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
> "A brilliant idea is a job halfdone."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Industry at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
--
Yours sincerely,
ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO
Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
GSM: +32 495 508 799
http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com
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