[Industry] development model vs business model [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Peter Baumann
baumann at rasdaman.com
Tue Aug 26 23:45:43 PDT 2014
+1 for "no one size fits all" - you were faster, Bruce!
-Peter
On 08/27/2014 08:18 AM, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
> Karel,
>
> I agree that more thought is required.
>
> As to the contribution back to communities:
>
> * Many organisations will find it easier to contribute staff time as opposed
> to funding.
> * Some organisations may wish to fund commercial organisations to do the
> work on their behalf, particularly if they don't have skills in house.
>
> I doubt that there will be any one solution that will suit all. We need to be
> flexible enough to look at a range of options.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> From: Karel Charvat <charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>
> Date: Wednesday, 27 August 2014 16:08
> To: Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman at bom.gov.au <mailto:B.Bannerman at bom.gov.au>>,
> Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>, "industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>" <industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> Subject: RE: [Industry] development model vs business model [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
> Hi, I don't know, if this is right way. If we will put any such obligation
> to FOSS, then you will only give arguments to proprietary software
> producers and mainly ESRI against FOSS.
>
> I think, that there is necessary to look for alternative sources of financing:
>
> Something like dual licencing or direct support from developers for end
> user and developers. I think, that something such is used outside of GI
> community by Liferay or inside of community offer such solution Geoserver,
> if I am right
>
> Training and mainly certification. In many public tenders you are required
> demonstrate, that you are certified as certified developers. This could be
> income and also chance to improve position of OS against proprietary
>
> And for starting projects are important grants, Universities, national,
> European, NASA, Pentagon others.
>
>
> Most of successful projects started with grants
>
> Karel
>
> *From:*industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Bannerman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:44 AM
> *To:* Cameron Shorter; industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
> I agree with the general gist of this thread.
>
> The obligations are to more than just companies reselling open source. It
> also relates to users and user organisations. See related thread initiated
> by Dirk on Discuss [1].
>
> We need a simple message relating to the 'total cost of ownership'. All
> software costs money to develop and maintain. The cost borne by user
> organisations could well be contribution back to the relevant open source
> communities. Once they get experience, this will in turn lead to
> opportunities for getting faster return and implementation on the
> functionality that they require operationally.
>
> Following on from Cameron's comments on government policy, we are already
> seeing policies in place that recommend contributions back to open source
> communities, e.g.:
>
> - Australian Government Open Source Policy [1] Principle 3 (Section 3.1
> p11) p states "Australian Government agencies will actively participate in
> open source
>
> software communities and contribute back where appropriate.".
>
> I understand that other governments have similar policies.
>
> Therefore the 'fair trade' message could well be helpful.
>
> Bruce
>
> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-July/013043.html
>
> [2] http://www.finance.gov.au/files/2012/04/AGuidetoOpenSourceSoftware.pdf
>
> *From: *Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 26 August 2014 7:22
> *To: *"industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>"
> <industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
>
> I like the concept of defining "Fair Trade Open Source".
> But I think it needs to be more than "we use open source so we should
> give a bit back to the community". Almost every developer, and many
> managers will agree with that statement, but when it comes to final
> signoff on a program of work, and there is a question between keeping
> extra features or keeping the "give back to the community", keeping
> features wins.
>
> In order to be successful, I envisage a "Fair Trade Open Source"
> should be explained as a value proposition to the business, and the
> message will change for each customer.
>
> For large programs, typically from government, buying into Fair Trade
> should start with a policy statement which explains:
> * Our business is strategically improved by X, Y, and Z Open Source
> projects
> * When these projects do well, we do well
> * A successful Open Source project includes more than our list of
> features, but also a strong community and set of processes, and
> testing, etc
> * As such, we will invest X% of our budget on Business As Usual open
> source tasks which includes A, B, C.
>
> This policy statement can then be referenced during purchasing and
> development cycles to justify selection of "give a bit back to the
> community" over extra features.
>
> On 26/08/2014 12:21 am, Camille Acey wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking on this list for a bit, but just wanted to speak
> up and mention that my friend and colleague Sumana Harihareswara
> gave a talk at 2010 OpenSource Bridge entitled "The Second Step:
> HOWTO encourage open source work at for-profits
> <http://opensourcebridge.org/wiki/2010/The_Second_Step:_HOWTO_encourage_open_source_work_at_for-profits>".
> There is still a lot of education that needs to be done in order
> to empower and encourage companies that use FLOSS to contribute
> back to the FLOSS projects. IMHO, that is where the work needs to
> be focused . Hopefully that talk can help you in getting a slide
> deck and/or other such marketing and education materials together.
>
> Cheers,
>
> *Camille E. Acey*
>
> Sales Operations Specialist | Boundless
>
> camille at boundlessgeo.com <mailto:camille at boundlessgeo.com> -
> 917.460.7197
>
> @boundlessgeo
>
> <https://twitter.com/boundlessgeo>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:32:15 +0200
> From: Peter Baumann <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
> To: Jachym Cepicky <jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>, Karel Charvat
> <charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>
> Cc: industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> Message-ID: <53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de
> <mailto:53FAE67F.7090903 at jacobs-university.de>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> extremely important discussion, great to see the pieces come together!
> We're getting at it: like any organization acting in the public,
> OSGeo needs a
> comprehensive, carefully crafted communication strategy, including
> clear-cut
> messages suitable for the target groups (not ourselves!),
> manifest, eg, in
> ready-made slide decks, posters and flyers that can be readily
> printed &
> distributed; plus well-defined, efficient decision processes - ie,
> the board
> needs a mandate to act (& delegate).
>
> my 2 cents,
> Peter
>
> PS: I agree that "fair trade open source" is nice, but IMHO we
> shouldn't open
> yet another challenge while the basic one - effective market
> communication - is
> still unsolved.
>
>
> On 08/25/2014 08:48 AM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:
> >
> > Not so fast, there are already rules, how to speak on behalf of
> OSGeo.
> > Everybody always drops an e-mail to the list, and informs/asks
> for permission
> > to speak on behalf of OSGeo.
> >
> > Board members are going to some events, but as already said, we
> have big
> > community of autonomous people and this is our strength.
> >
> > So, once you would like to have OSGeo presented on some event,
> ask in the list
> > and talk about it.
> >
> > What we are missing are some rules regarding our brand and
> representation used
> > on business cards ... Funny, topic actually
> >
> > Jachym
> >
> > Send from cellphone
> >
> > --
> > Jachym Cepicky
> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
> >
> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
> >
> > On Aug 25, 2014 2:19 AM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
> <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>
> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with this, but on other side, we need some rules how
> to do this. I
> > was in past in leadership of other organisation EFITA and
> now I am in
> > leadership of Club of Ossiach. But in any case, there are
> necessary to
> > define rules, how to go, how to speak on behalf of
> community. It is not
> > good and impossible if for example anybody will speak or make
> > presentation on behalf of Community. In such case, it could
> be chaos. For
> > example to have presentation on conferences or eventually
> organise some
> > exhibition has to be task of responsible persons (Probably
> board of
> > President), I can promote OSGEO as part of our activities,
> but I cannot go
> > for example to European Commission and speak on behalf of
> OSGEO. Every
> > time some responsibility is necessary
> >
> > Karel
> >
> > *From:*Jachym Cepicky [mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>]
> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:31 PM
> > *To:* Karel Charvat
> > *Cc:* industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>; Even
> > Rouault; dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>>
> > *Subject:* RE: [Industry] development model vs business model
> >
> > Hi Karel,
> >
> > As you said, I try to promote OSGeo as much as possible, but
> it never is
> > one man show. You are registered as OSGeo advocate as well,
> as well as
> > other community members. It was always said, that community
> is our biggest
> > strength. And this is the case.
> >
> > Yes, we have to step out of our nich, to reach other
> communities. But
> > Foss4g-europe is about our community, to support it.
> >
> > Just 2 cents
> >
> > Jachym
> >
> > Send from cellphone
> >
> > --
> > Jachym Cepicky
> > e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> > URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> > GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
> >
> > Give your code freedom with PyWPS
> -http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
> >
> > On Aug 24, 2014 3:43 PM, "Karel Charvat" <charvat at ccss.cz
> <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>
> > <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz <mailto:charvat at ccss.cz>>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I would like make some comments from position of
> business. I am new in
> > this forum, but I am long time involved as manager in
> integration of
> > system and development of software (mainly OS}. We are
> using OSGEO
> > products and we are also trying to put our development
> towards
> > community, so support OS development (not OSGEO
> products, there we
> > have only small contribution).
> > But I have to say, that not many others companies in
> Czech are doing
> > the same and probably they don't plan to do the some. I
> am sure, that
> > most of them respect license, but they use OS in the
> some way as
> > proprietary software, only without obligation to pay
> (and this is main
> > reason).
> > It is nice idea to start promote FOSS Fair trade branch,
> but what is
> > necessary to start build OSGEPO brand. I am afraid, that
> most of
> > developers and also customers (public servant's} are
> aware about OSGEO.
> > And FOSS4GI event (global or European) are not way, how
> to reach
> > community. I am sure, that information about FOSS4GI
> (Europe) is well
> > reaching community OSGEO community, but not to much
> outside. So there
> > is necessary, that OSGEO will be active outside of
> FOSS4GI events,
> > local national European, Global. Only this is the way.
> > I think that in Czech Jachym start to do it in good
> way, but all is
> > long process
> > Karel
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > [mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> > <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] On Behalf Of Dirk Frigne
> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:28 AM
> > To: Even Rouault; industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> > <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > Subject: Re: [Industry] development model vs business model
> >
> > Even,
> >
> > On 22-08-14 21:31, Even Rouault wrote:
> > > Le vendredi 22 ao?t 2014 15:45:45, Mateusz ?oskot a
> ?crit :
> > >> On 22 August 2014 14:28, Dirk Frigne
> <dirk.frigne at geosparc.com <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>
> > <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com
> <mailto:dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>>> wrote:
> > >>> reacting on the comments of Mateusz:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 22-08-14 12:03, Dirk Frigne wrote:
> > >>>> Sorry for crossposting, but this snippet from the
> thread
> > [...]
> > >
> > > If we were to deliver a "Fair trade open source" label
> (or more
> > > specifically "Fair trade of OSGeo software"), it would
> be difficult
> > > to do that in a ... fair way, because you would have
> to measure
> > > somehow the value contributed back to OSGeo with
> respect to the
> > value made by using OSGeo software.
> > The fact something will be difficult does not mean
> impossible.
> > The first thing we would have to do is to define why
> open source (in
> > general - but as far as we are concerned for Geo) is
> important, and
> > what is "fair" and what is not.
> > This can be done by listening to people who are using
> open source for
> > business. Why they choose for OSGeo software, and what
> they think is
> > fair (or only legal).
> >
> > I think a good opportunity to start with this is the
> proposed business
> > track on the next FOSS4G-Europe conference. The idea's
> for such a
> > business track are being discussed in the thread "when
> and where" [1].
> > From such testimonials we can learn what "we" define as
> "Fair" and
> > establish guidelines, which when followed allows a
> business entity, an
> > academic user or an administration to label themselves
> as respecting
> > these guidelines.
> > This could be a good first start for this difficult task.
> >
> > >
> > > Even
> > D.
> > [1]
> >
> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference-europe/2014-August/000173.html
> >
> > --
> > Yours sincerely,
> >
> >
> > ir. Dirk Frigne
> > CEO
> >
> > Geosparc n.v.
> > Brugsesteenweg 587
> > B-9030 Ghent
> > Tel: +32 9 236 60 18 <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%2018>
> <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060% <tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%25>
>
> 2018>
> > GSM: +32 495 508 799 <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799> <tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799>
> >
> > http://www.geomajas.org
> > http://www.geosparc.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Industry mailing list
> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Industry mailing list
> > Industry at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Industry at lists.osgeo.org>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/industry
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Baumann
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
> <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
> tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax:
> +49-421-200-493178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
> www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail:
> baumann at rasdaman.com <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile:
> +49-173-5837882 <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola
> incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei
> reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi
> parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Cameron Shorter,
>
> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>
> LISAsoft
>
> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>
> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
>
>
> P +61 2 9009 5000, Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
>
>
>
> This body part will be downloaded on demand.
--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
"A brilliant idea is a job halfdone."
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