[mapserver-dev] Versioned MapServer Docs?

Seth G sethg at geographika.co.uk
Fri Mar 19 03:05:43 PDT 2021


Hi all,

It seems like the consensus is to keep a single set of docs, so I'm wondering how we deal with removed keywords rather than deprecated. For deprecated keywords we have the following tag:

    .. deprecated:: 5.0

For new keywords we have:

.. versionadded:: 6.2

We don't currently have a similar removed keyword (and there is no Sphinx directive [1]). LABEL ENCODING [2] uses:

    .. deprecated:: 7.0
         Removed.  UTF-8 is now the encoding used by MapServer, and
         data set encodings are handled using :ref:`LAYER` `ENCODING`.

But then it is unclear what version it was deprecated and what version it was removed. Perhaps simply adding "Removed in 7.6" would be sufficient, or alternatively create a custom directive?

I think we should still have a cut-off point for removing keywords from the docs completely. Maybe 6.0 (released in 2011)? Anything removed in 8.0 would still be removed in a 10.0 release?
Anyone using MapServer versions earlier than 6.0 are unlikely to be updating Mapfiles. 

Seth


[1] https://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/master/usage/restructuredtext/directives.html
[2] https://mapserver.org/mapfile/label.html#mapfile-label-encoding
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On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Yves Jacolin wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> From my point of view, I agree mostly with Jeff. Having both deprecated and added version is interesting even if we are using an older (or later) version of MS. I understand Even position though and may be we should remove too old deprecated version 4.x and 5.x are so old. 6.x release are probably still widely used.
> 
> Thank you all!
> 
> Y.
> 
> Le ven. 19 mars 2021 à 00:31, Jeff McKenna <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com> a écrit :
>> The user also wants to see ALL possibilities, not necessarily just for a 
>> specific version.  I know, software devs think a user just needs to know 
>> what is available for that version that the user has installed, but 
>> actually the user wants to know what is possible, and when it was added, 
>> and then adjust the installation method if needed.
>> 
>> I just see this as a typical difference in how software developers think 
>> versus how a user thinks, and I don't mean this in a bad way, I just 
>> think, from my experience, this is the constant challenge in managing 
>> software (and why the person writing the code should never be the one 
>> who documents it).
>> 
>> -jeff
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2021-03-18 8:25 p.m., Jeff McKenna wrote:
>> > I also think here we have a difference between how a core developer 
>> > works (on main, building from source) and then how a typical software 
>> > user works (using a binary/package built by someone else, often a much 
>> > older MapServer version), so those one-line notes of version added 
>> > (which is absolutely irrelevant to a core developer who uses the latest 
>> > source each day) become what I would call a total "lifeline" to a user, 
>> > so they can know what parameters work with their old installed package.
>> > 
>> > -jeff
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On 2021-03-18 8:18 p.m., Jeff McKenna wrote:
>> >> As a user I'm constantly relying on those 'added in 5.0' notes, this 
>> >> is the information that a user needs and craves in the actual user 
>> >> document (not separate deep in an RFC document).  I see these version 
>> >> notes (a single line that is nicely color coded often) as always 
>> >> relevant, as users need to know when a parameter was added (and 
>> >> especially those ones that aren't always fresh & mentioned, such as 
>> >> old 5.0 ones etc).
>> >>
>> >> -jeff
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 2021-03-18 7:23 p.m., Even Rouault wrote:
>> >>> My point was too much (no longer relevant) information kills 
>> >>> information. For the user of Mapserver 7.6, what's the point in 
>> >>> seeing some feature was added in 4.0 or removed in 5.2 ? That just 
>> >>> adds to the cognitive load. It might be useful though to see that 
>> >>> something was added / removed recently and you don't benefit yet from 
>> >>> it or are dependent on it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Le 18/03/2021 à 23:17, Richard Greenwood a écrit :
>> >>>> As a guy who has been reading the mapserv docs for 20+ years I'll 
>> >>>> say that I love the format of the docs in general and specifically 
>> >>>> the version added, version deprecated, etc. Thanks Jeff and all the 
>> >>>> other contributors. Hopefully I'll be reading the docs for another 
>> >>>> 20 years.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Rich
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:18 PM Jeff McKenna 
>> >>>> <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com 
>> >>>> <mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     Ah ok Even, your words sunk into me more now, good points. 
>> >>>> Although I
>> >>>>     differ in that I think keeping all of the 'versionadded'
>> >>>>     references are
>> >>>>     very important, as this is the rich information that is so 
>> >>>> priceless
>> >>>>     (knowing when exactly something was added) for both the users and
>> >>>>     maintainers of the software/docs.  I personally have been making
>> >>>>     sure to
>> >>>>     add those 'versionadded' and 'deprecated since' and 'since version'
>> >>>>     notes into the docs, as this information is so useful to users,
>> >>>>     even in
>> >>>>     the case of it being added in 5.0 etc.  And as you said, I have 
>> >>>> to go
>> >>>>     get that information in the RFC, which users won't know to 
>> >>>> check, so
>> >>>>     I've been adding those 'since version' references that you
>> >>>>     mention, to
>> >>>>     help users.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     -jeff
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     On 2021-03-18 5:39 p.m., Even Rouault wrote:
>> >>>>     > If we keep a single version for simplicity, we could however
>> >>>>     decide to
>> >>>>     > clean up a bit the doc content to remove mentions of outdated
>> >>>>     versions
>> >>>>     > to avoid cluttering it. There is little point in mentioning any
>> >>>>     version
>> >>>>     > older than let's say 5? years ago. I've done that a bit in the
>> >>>>     GDAL docs
>> >>>>     > a few months ago, removing any mention of GDAL < 2, considering
>> >>>>     that all
>> >>>>     > people looking at the docs would have at least GDAL 2.x something
>> >>>>     > available, or if they use antiquated stuff, too bad for them.
>> >>>>     >
>> >>>>     > Looking a bit at download artifacts, for MapServer we could
>> >>>>     decide for
>> >>>>     > example that the baseline is MapServer 6.4 (or possibly even 7.0
>> >>>>     for
>> >>>>     > simplicity), and remove any mention of that or older versions
>> >>>>     (except in
>> >>>>     > RFCs that are reflective of history)
>> >>>>     >
>> >>>>     > "grep -r versionadded en" in the doc repository shows a number
>> >>>>     of things
>> >>>>     > of the 4.x, 5.x or early 6.x eras.  'grep -ri "since version"
>> >>>>     en' shows
>> >>>>     > also a number of potential cleanups.
>> >>>>     >
>> >>>>     > Even
>> >>>>     >
>> >>>>     > Le 18/03/2021 à 21:15, Jeff McKenna a écrit :
>> >>>>     >> My preference has always been for Option#1, as it is much
>> >>>>     easier to
>> >>>>     >> maintain in my experience, as it is stated clearly as
>> >>>>     deprecated at
>> >>>>     >> the parameter level in the document.
>> >>>>     >>
>> >>>>     >> Speaking openly here, if I was paid fulltime to manage the docs
>> >>>>     and
>> >>>>     >> all the different build versions of the docs, and publishing 
>> >>>> them
>> >>>>     >> online, I could see how that would be possible; but as we are
>> >>>>     made up
>> >>>>     >> of volunteers, I would prefer to keep the single version
>> >>>>     updated with
>> >>>>     >> references to when the feature was added (what MapServer
>> >>>>     version), and
>> >>>>     >> if it is deprecated.  I remember recently spending much effort
>> >>>>     on that
>> >>>>     >> in-line versioning improvements, I think that is working nicely
>> >>>>     now.
>> >>>>     >>
>> >>>>     >> -jeff
>> >>>>     >>
>> >>>>     >>
>> >>>>     >>
>> >>>>     >>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     --     Jeff McKenna
>> >>>>     GatewayGeo: Developers of MS4W, MapServer Consulting and Training
>> >>>>     co-founder of FOSS4G
>> >>>>     http://gatewaygeo.com/ <http://gatewaygeo.com/>
>> >>>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>>     mapserver-dev mailing list
>> >>>>     mapserver-dev at lists.osgeo.org 
>> >>>> <mailto:mapserver-dev at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >>>>     https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev
>> >>>>     <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -- 
>> >>>> Richard W. Greenwood, PLS
>> >>>> www.greenwoodmap.com <http://www.greenwoodmap.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> mapserver-dev mailing list
>> >>>> mapserver-dev at lists.osgeo.org
>> >>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev
>> >>>
>> >>> -- 
>> >>> http://www.spatialys.com
>> >>> My software is free, but my time generally not.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> mapserver-dev mailing list
>> >>> mapserver-dev at lists.osgeo.org
>> >>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jeff McKenna
>> GatewayGeo: Developers of MS4W, MapServer Consulting and Training
>> co-founder of FOSS4G
>> http://gatewaygeo.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mapserver-dev mailing list
>> mapserver-dev at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev
> 
> 
> -- 
> Yves Jacolin
> Training and support manager - Team Manager
> Camptocamp
> 
> Tel (France) : +33 4 58 48 20 43
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> 
> email : yves.jacolin at camptocamp.com
> http://www.camptocamp.com
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