A confused Network Admin

[Lisi, Christine]

That's cool :)  Don't you just love the word "cool"?  Yes, I grew up in
the 70's!

 

There are people and companies on this list that can offer you paid 

support ... same people and probably same advice that you can get 

through the list but on-demand, more timely, and by telephone :)  Cute -
I'm sure there are!

 

Microsoft has deep pockets and 'Windows Everywhere'.  ESRI ... no
comment ;)  It's sickening, isn't it?

 

Your feedback on the doc list will be very helpful.  Thanks.  You've
given me a laugh and a smile on a day that wasn't all that joyful!

 

Something you may want to consider is using a pre-packaged environment 

that comes with everything you need, fully functional and pre-configured


such as MS4W (http://www.maptools.org/ms4w/).  It provides everything 

you need including an Apache web server ... it is possible to configure 

it to run through IIS and we have a prototype of this internally but no 

documentation ;) yet ... it will be included in MS4W as soon as the docs


are done since it is a manual process to integrate stuff into IIS (as 

you well know by now).  Also, it only provides PHP4 at this time ... I 

would add a note about PHP5 from some users on the Chameleon list, it 

appears that PHP5 is 25% slower than a similarly configured PHP4, 

possibly because of how we use PHP but still disappointing.

 

I will pass this information on to our GIS consultant.  I'm pretty much
DONE with this stuff for now.  I hope!

 

Have a good night.  I'm outta here until Friday.  Cheers, Paul.

 

Christine

 

Lisi, Christine wrote:

> Paul - you are right, phone support does not come cheap, but as
someone

> who has a lot of input on application decisions here, one of my main

> criteria is that the vendor offer good phone Support.  I didn't have

> much say in the purchase of the ESRI software because it's almost an

> industry standard from what I understand, but their tech support is on
a

> call-back basis, which amazes me given the cost of the software and

> maintenance.  I think they have the market cornered so they just don't

> care, but I would think that must frustrate the end user immensely.

> Again, I am a Network Admin and not an end user of the software, but I

> can't believe that the industry lets ESRI get away with that.  I know

> once we get into this project it will frustrate me too, and if I have
to

> I will call the President.  With the money we are paying for the

> software, I will take it to the top.

> 

> Another thing that's relevant to this conversation...  99% of the
calls

> I make to Microsoft are due to problems/errors/exclusions in

> documentation, and 99% of the time I do not have to pay for the call

> because in the end it's their documentation (or lack thereof) that is

> the reason why I'm calling in the first place.

> 

> I sent an e-mail to the MapServer-Doc list with some suggestions.

> 

> Christine Lisi

> Application Specialist

> 

> Management Information Systems * City of Delray Beach * 100 NW First

> Avenue, Delray Beach, FL 33444

> 

> Phone, 561-243-7142 * Fax, 561-243-7166 * eMail,
Lisi at MyDelrayBeach.com

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: UMN MapServer Users List [mailto:MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU]
On

> Behalf Of Paul Spencer

> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:56 PM

> To: MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU

> Subject: Re: [UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] A confused Network Admin

> 

> This is a personal gripe and is not directed at Christine - she just
got

> me started thinking about it :)

> 

> There is some confusion here in assuming that Open Source = FREE.  It

> doesn't mean that at all.

> 

> For those of you that like to be able to call up Tech Support, I doubt

> that you got the product for free in the first place and that's where

> part of your money goes ... paying for Tech Support and Documentation.

> 

> For the MapServer community in general, if you want better

> documentation, it has to be paid for either by contributing time
writing

> the documentation or financially supporting those who can write the

> documentation.  Its not going to write itself.  If you aren't prepared

> to contribute then I guess you don't really have a problem.

> 

> Paul

> 

> Lisi, Christine wrote:

> 

>>Marco - I couldn't have put it better myself.  The best OpenSource

>>documentation of the four I have dealt with in the last 2 weeks came

>>with PHP; twenty-three pages of step-by-step instructions, and they

>>didn't forget about Windows users.  I agree that this listserver

>>wouldn't be nearly as busy if the documentation on the OpenSource

>>products was more complete and precise, and I also wish there was more

>>of a collaborative effort between the programmers when releasing new

>>versions.

>> 

>>All I can say is, thank goodness for this listserver because I could

>>have never gotten through this with documentation alone.

>> 

>>Christine Lisi

>>Application Specialist

>> 

>>Management Information Systems * City of Delray Beach * 100 NW First

>>Avenue, Delray Beach, FL 33444

>> 

>>Phone, 561-243-7142 * Fax, 561-243-7166 * eMail,

> 

> Lisi at MyDelrayBeach.com

> 

>> 

>>-----Original Message-----

>>From: UMN MapServer Users List [mailto:MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU]

> 

> On

> 

>>Behalf Of Marco Marsella

>>Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 1:07 PM

>>To: MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU

>>Subject: Re: [UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] A confused Network Admin

>> 

>>I would like to reassure Christine that she's not the only one

> 

> confused

> 

>>about OpenSource in general and MapServer in particular. I have over

> 

> 25

> 

>>years of professional programming experience in too many languages,

>>starting with FORTRAN IV when some of the listers here where probably

>>not even able to read yet ;-)

>> 

>>I find myself also *very* confused because of the terribly poor

>>documentation that usually complements OpenSource projects. Most often

>>than not, there is just a very technical document that tersely

> 

> explains

> 

>>what you can do with this or that parameter. With most Java projects

>>you just find the JavaDoc! There is little or no high-level

>>documentation that explains the architecture and lets you find your

> 

> way

> 

>>around. Most of the projects require that you spend an inordinate

>>amount of time looking at the code to understand what you can do and

>>how.

>> 

>>For me, I find the MapServer documentation absolutely insufficient and

>>it is amazing how people prefer to spend a lot of time replying on

> 

> this

> 

>>list rather than investing much more efficiently their time writing

>>decent documentation and providing good tutorials and examples.

>> 

>>Please, do not misunderstand me! I think MapServer is a terrific

>>project and I am incredibly grateful to the very knowledgeable guys

> 

> out

> 

>>there willing to help through the list. Only, I would much prefer

>>having good documentation to work through and bother the listers only

>>when absolutely necessary.

>> 

>>As you may have seen, I put my.. time where the mouth is. As soon as I

>>learn how to do something, I will post a message to the list hoping

>>that it might be of help to others (see "[UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] A

>>simple... sample!" dated 10 Feb 2005). Sure, it is a trivial example,

>>but it took me *a lot* of time (and a zillion Google searches) to

>>figure out, much longer than I would expect! I will be more than happy

>>to continue doing so to alleviate the trouble of learning MapServer!

>> 

>>Cheers

>> 

>>Marco

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> --

> +-----------------------------------------------------------------+

> |Paul Spencer                           pspencer at dmsolutions.ca   |

> +-----------------------------------------------------------------+

> |Applications & Software Development                              |

> |DM Solutions Group Inc                 http://www.dmsolutions.ca/|

> +-----------------------------------------------------------------+

> 

> 

 

-- 

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

|Paul Spencer                           pspencer at dmsolutions.ca   |

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

|Applications & Software Development                              |

|DM Solutions Group Inc                 http://www.dmsolutions.ca/|

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