[OSGeo Oceania] A discussion on openness

[Edoardo Neerhut]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in so far. No one is on the sidelines!
Every voice should matter here.

Alex, I stated this 1-1, but for the record, I'm sorry to hear if you feel
personally attacked. You've contributed so much to this organisation and I
think our community's a lot better off thanks to your wisdom, effort, and
presence. My intention with this thread is to discuss concrete ways we can
address the transparency concerns that were raised. Whenever there is
disagreement within the community, I think it's healthy to just step
through it systematically. To me this is not about perfection, but creating
a platform where the community feels fully welcome, aware, and empowered.
That's always going to be messy with disagreements par for the course.

In having this conversation, we should be charitable to one another.

*To summarise*
I'm going to do my best to summarise the thread so far as I interpreted it.

*What we've done well:*

   - Created an organisation (OSGeo Oceania) and a lot of the foundations
   to make it sustainable.
   - Organised 3 successful conference series that engaged people from
   across the region on open source geospatial.
   - Brought together a fairly healthy spread of volunteers to carry the
   load. I'm seeing a lot of new people from across the region putting their
   hands up for things.
   - We've been adaptable. SSSI was an important partnership in the early
   days to support our growth. This year the community did an amazing job to
   adapt to the challenge of COVID and keep the conference series alive. It
   would have been so easy to call off.

*What we can do better:*

   - Agree on how we want to communicate as a board, memorise it, and live
   up to it. Mailing lists are key here, but make active efforts to invite
   people in the community to participate in conversations...like this one! We
   just had the first meeting of the new board and we are going to have a
   public discussion on how we should communicate effectively and openly.
   - Establish some sort of code of conduct so that we have a standard for
   respectful behaviour that we all agree upon. This could include some of the
   suggestions Violaine made and board members would certainly need to abide
   by it just like everyone in the community.
   - Suggestions for improvement are helpful, but they're even better when
   the person giving them is willing to put their hand up.
   - Continue to look externally and learn from other open source projects
   and communities that align with our values.

I'm incredibly optimistic that we can retain the fundamentals that got us
to where we are, while finding countless ways to improve. That improvement
has to be led by the wider community, including the wonderful people who
took the time to reply to this long chain.




On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 15:57, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Bruce
>
> Just a couple of quick points. When I said "first conference" I meant the
> conference in 2018, so the first of the Oceania conferences, not the real
> first one! Apologies for the oversight.
>
> And there is a draft code of conduct
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania-board/2020-November/000046.html>
> and various
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/2020-November/002407.html>
> conversations
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/2020-November/002408.html>
> around it.
>
> Regards,
>
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 15:30, Bruce Bannerman <
> bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> Comments interleaved below:
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 Dec 2020, at 08:27, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hey Folks
>>
>> I volunteered with SSSI for 6 years, including 3 on the Board, so I've
>> seen this all before. And really, we could do worse than becoming like
>> SSSI, in that they are an organisation with deep roots that has been around
>> in different variations for decades. SSSI is mostly run by volunteers,
>> although there are a number of paid staff too. But most importantly, it's a
>> group of people doing their best, and it's very easy to criticise the work
>> of others, and much harder to get inside and actually do the work. I can
>> look back at my time in SSSI and feel that I did good work. I would have
>> liked to be more opinionated and to have actually dived in and made some
>> changes that I didn't, but I've learnt from that, and I have a bunch of
>> great colleagues, mentors and now, to some extent, mentees in that
>> community.
>>
>>
>>
>> SSSI also had its destructive divisions.
>>
>> I was a former member of the Australian Institute of Cartographers and
>> the Australian Institute of Surveyors.
>>
>> I applauded the move to bring similar parties together under the banner
>> of the Spatial Sciences Institute of Australia and became a founding member.
>>
>> The SSI was a bright light on the Australian scene for a number of years,
>> until a small group, believing that they knew better fractured the
>> community and forced the additional ’S’  in SSI.
>>
>> I don’t intend rehashing old issues, but suffice to say that many former
>> SSI members left the organisation then in disgust, myself included. I have
>> no idea what SSSI is like now, but do know of a number of people who I
>> respect are still members.
>>
>> The lesson that I learned from that episode is that you need to bring
>> your community along with you.
>>
>> That requires open communications, avoiding as much as possible any
>> private and hidden discussions.
>>
>> I suggest avoiding the emulation of SSSI processes and policies. There is
>> a significant difference between an open source community and a
>> professional association.
>>
>>
>> Also remember that they supported us in running our first conference
>> while expecting us to make a loss! We could do a lot worse than that.
>> Supporting someone in their innovation, despite expectations of something
>> less than success is exactly how you empower someone. I'm grateful for
>> SSSI's institutional knowledge and its community.
>>
>>
>> I’m glad that you remember that!   Though I don’t recall any monetary
>> involvement from SSSI. The financial risk was bourne by the OSGeo
>> Foundation.
>>
>> SSSI was one of the organisations that kindly supported us with
>> publicising the International FOSS4G-2009.
>>
>> Thanks in particular go to Glen Cockerton and David Sinclair.
>>
>>
>> I think it might be worth the new Board calling on someone from Linux
>> Australia perhaps to talk to the Board about how they survive the politics
>> and drama over time. But right now I can't imagine what I might ask someone
>> like that. Because you know what? I think Phil captured it right.
>>
>>
>> We have a new board and members new to open source communities. So be
>> kind to yourselves.  It will take time to bed things down.
>>
>> Sorry to repeat myself, but also remember that there are people within
>> our community who have a wealth of experience working within international
>> open source communities. Some with nearly two decades experience.
>>
>>
>> This year has been ridiculous, we're volunteers and we need to protect
>> ourselves from cynicism and burnout. I trust those who I am on the Board
>> with, without question. It's not a matter of faith, it's respect. Basic
>> respect.
>>
>>
>> The burnout issue is a significant problem.
>>
>> IMHO, this is why OSGeo AustNZ lost momentum and petered out. We had too
>> few active volunteers, combined with the sustained two year effort to
>> prepare and run an international conference put a severe strain on things.
>> We all had day jobs that demanded our attention.
>>
>>
>> I urge members of our OSGeo Oceania community to get involved and
>> volunteer. You will constantly be surprised at how much you (and your
>> organisations) get back in return.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Ed's original question around openness and transparency, I hope
>> conversations like this help us, but I can't help but think that they might
>> be harming us. We have work that must be done, a new Board to onboard and
>> some kind of conference to plan next year and having the same arguments
>> about what perfection is does not get us any closer to that.
>>
>>
>> Alex, please don’t think of this discussion as a pursuit of perfection.
>>
>> In my opinion, this is a timely and necessary discussion about ensuring
>> that we have solid open source community foundations in place. A critical
>> part of this is having free, open and respectful discussions to arrive at a
>> community consensus decision.
>>
>> When community members feel valued and listed to, they will want to
>> become more involved and contribute more.
>>
>>
>>
>> The OSGeo-OCeania Community may also wish to adopt an appropriate Code of
>> Conduct to ensure free, open and respectful interactions.
>>
>> One such example is the Berlin Code of Conduct:
>> https://berlincodeofconduct.org/
>>
>> We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. There is a wealth of experience out
>> there to utilise.
>>
>> As per my post yesterday, a good starting point is Karl Fogel’s excellent
>> book ‘Producing Open Source software’ https://producingoss.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> (stepping down off my soapbox...)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, like a cockroach, I'll slip back under the fridge, having survived
>> another pair of boots.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t see that this thread is targeted at any particular person. It is
>> more about ensuring that we have our basic foundations right.
>>
>> So, I apologise if you feel singled out. It is certainly not my
>> intention, and I have not seen it come up in other discussions on this
>> thread.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 08:07, Bruce Bannerman <
>> bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Adam for taking the time to contribute what must have been a
>>> very difficult response.
>>>
>>> I value your thoughts on this.
>>>
>>> If Osgeo-Oceania is going to survive as a viable open source community,
>>> we need to learn from experiences such as yours and John’s.
>>>
>>> We cannot afford to turn away and lose such talent from our community.
>>>
>>> Our volunteers are our lifeblood. We cannot afford to lose any.
>>>
>>> OK, I can see that there is an issue here.
>>>
>>> It is important that we understand the root cause of what has caused
>>> this rift within our community.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I urge others to also share their experiences. We can then
>>> move forward.
>>>
>>> It is not easy establishing and nurturing a successful open source
>>> community. Once it is done effectively, the community will develop a
>>> momentum of its own.
>>>
>>> I can see that we have been very successful at attracting new blood to
>>> our community. However that has also brought people who are new to open
>>> source communities and how they need to operate to thrive.
>>>
>>> With some effort, we can resolve this current bump in the road.
>>>
>>> To the current and former OSGeo Oceania Directors. Thank you for
>>> volunteering your skills and time to lead our community. You have not had
>>> an easy task, and it is easy for those who have not been in a similar
>>> position to criticise.
>>>
>>> As a community, we can turn this situation around. We have a lot of
>>> experience to call on, particularly those with extensive international open
>>> source experience.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 8 Dec 2020, at 02:02, Adam Steer <adam.d.steer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey Ed
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for initiating this discussion. My story is long and boring and
>>> > yes, the fundamental reason for resigning is that I literally could
>>> > not interact with the board anymore - because of ethical concerns,
>>> > because it just felt like a drain on my time and energy, because I
>>> > really felt like I had wasted so much time being forced into circular
>>> > discussions and projects (eg communications, which is still a giant
>>> > and growing tangle) - so I leave this discussion and the incoming
>>> > board with some suggestions:
>>> >
>>> > - always remember the community does not need OSGeo Oceania, but OSGeo
>>> > Oceania needs the community.
>>> > - always give people space to speak for themselves, especially in
>>> > board meetings.
>>> > - always respect peoples' efforts and experience and input, and do it
>>> > consistently for everyone
>>> > - as John indicated, operating transparently is easy and fruitful. The
>>> > tools are there use them
>>> > - as you indicated, always propose a solution when a problem is raised
>>> > - remember we have a broad, caring, thoughtful, enthusiastic and
>>> > deeply experienced community to draw on
>>> > - remember we have existing patterns for open and transparent
>>> > operation to draw on (OSGeo in particular, the book Bruce mentioned,
>>> > other long established chapters of OSGeo and OSM, orgs like Linux
>>> > Australia), and ready collaborators for taking on projects like
>>> > building open conference systems
>>> > - remember to care about ethics, particularly around how we handle
>>> > personal data we are trusted with and who we hand it to. Take the time
>>> > to learn about how companies we use (eg Mailchimp) operate instead of
>>> > just glossing over data issues for convenience.
>>> > - value transparency over bells and whistles in communication.
>>> > Remember http has also been around a while but we don't call it the
>>> > cockroach of the internet - and even fancy mailers use ancient mail
>>> > transfer protocols ;). Mailing lists persist because they are
>>> > incredibly functional and useful.
>>> > - avoid becoming another SSSI.
>>> >
>>> > Congratulations on being elected to the board, I hope the organisation
>>> > remembers its roots in this coming year. I am unlikely to spend much
>>> > OSGeo Oceania time for a while - however feel free to reach out about
>>> > any wrinkles you find that have my name attached. I've made as much
>>> > mess as anyone, and haven't been particularly great at handing over
>>> > things
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> > Adam
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Oceania mailing list
>>> > Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Oceania mailing list
>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alex Leith
>> m: 0419189050
>>
>>
>
> --
> Alex Leith
> m: 0419189050
> _______________________________________________
> Oceania mailing list
> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>
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