[OSGeoLive] Will there be an ARM version of the osgeo live?

Tue Feb 8 21:59:02 PST 2022

I don't have a M1 Mac to test with, but it looks like someone else has x86-64 Ubuntu running under macOS on M1 with qemu [1].  It appears they had to build qemu from source to get a ARM native build because the packaged version (Homebrew) was a x86 build running in Rosetta (the article is a year old, maybe this has changed).  Having ARM emulate x86 emulating x86 seems like a bad idea.

I can run OSGeo Live 14 on my 4GB Raspberry Pi 4B running 64-bit Raspberry PI OS using the system supplied qemu-system-x86_64 [2]. It is not fast, but neither is the Pi.  The same command runs reasonably well on my 4 year old Linux desktop (and with KVM enabled it is extremely fast).  Based on what I've heard about the performance of the M1, I'd expect it would probably handle it OK.

My conclusion is running the existing OSGeo Live VM on an M1 Mac is likely more involved than we can expect the average user to undertake at the moment, but it seems like it should be possible as all the building blocks appear to exist.  However, I don't have the hardware (or time currently) to explore this further and figure out how to clearly document and package this.

I'm not suggesting that this is something that should be pursued. Like the prospect of maintaining an ARM version of OSGeo Live, this is also likely much more of an ongoing time commitment related to documentation, testing, and answering questions than it is a technical challenge of making it work.  If there is a ready made ARM native QEMU package (or some other x86 emulator) available for macOS that was already being maintained, running the existing OSGeo Live VM on an M1 Mac would be much more feasible.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1473419

[2] qemu-system-x86_64 -machine type=q35 --accel tcg,thread=multi -cpu qemu64 -smp 4 -drive file=osgeolive-14.0-amd64.qcow2,cache=none,if=virtio,aio=native -net nic,model=virtio -net user -device virtio-vga -display default,show-cursor=on -device intel-hda -device hda-duplex -m 2048 -device qemu-xhci -device usb-kbd -device usb-tablet

On 2/8/22 14:37, Jim Klassen wrote:
> This is getting off topic, but running x86 operating systems on non-x86 Macs isn't a new thing to long time Apple users.
>
> There were multiple software options for both 68k Macs (eg. SoftPC) as well as PowerPC Macs (eg. SoftWindows/VirtualPC) to allow this.  Of course, the emulation was slower than running native in a VM, but it was for the most part usable.  (There were also several hardware solutions going back to the Apple IIe with several CP/M Z-80 cards, there was a Mac286 card available for the Mac II series, and the "DOS Compatible" version of the PowerMac 6100 had a 486 card in it, and probably more I don't know about. And of course, one of the features Apple claimed of their x86 Macs was the ability to run other x86 operating systems natively using Bootcamp.)
>
> There are also FOSS projects (available at least on Linux) which allow running x86 operating systems on non-x86 machines (QEMU and Bochs come to mind).  QEMU also has long supported user mode emulation on Linux which allows running any architecture Linux binaries as if it was a native binary on any architecture Linux system.
>
> What surprises me is, given this very long (35+ year) and continuous history of users needing at least some capability to run x86 operating systems on their Apple hardware, that Apple and the surrounding ecosystem have ignored this need with the Apple's transition to ARM.
>
> On 2/7/22 09:45, Kobben, Barend (UT-ITC) wrote:
>>
>> Nope, that is a shame. Parallels (the VM host)  won’t even install the hosted system (be it Li/Unix or Windows) if it is not ARM-based :-(
>>
>> So I can install an ARM-based Ubuntu, but not the LIVE OSGEO Lubuntu...
>>
>> See, in the link you sent: “*What can’t Rosetta 2 translate?*
>>
>> Rosetta cannot translate kernel extensions or Virtual Machine apps that virtualize x86_64 computer platforms. Developers should be aware that Rosetta is also unable to translate AVX, AVX2, and AVX512 vector instructions. ”
>>
>> /-- /
>>
>> /Barend Köbben/
>>
>> On 07/02/2022, 15:46, "Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)" <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us> wrote:
>>
>> *Is Apple Rosetta 2 able to handle the Intel side? https://www.computerworld.com/article/3597949/everything-you-need-to-know-about-rosetta-2-on-apple-silicon-macs.html*
>>
>> **
>>
>> *Bobb*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *My machine - - - PW19-S295-C024*
>>
>> **
>>
>> *From:*osgeolive <osgeolive-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> *On Behalf Of *Kobben, Barend (UT-ITC)
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 7, 2022 3:34 AM
>> *To:* Angelos Tzotsos <gcpp.kalxas at gmail.com>; osgeolive at lists.osgeo.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSGeoLive] Will there be an ARM version of the osgeo live?
>>
>> *Think Before You Click: *This email originated *outside *our organization.
>>
>> Dear Angelos,
>>
>> That is a real pity, as it will mean losing all Apple users in the coming years :-(
>>
>> yours
>>
>> /-- /
>>
>> /Barend Köbben/
>>
>> On 05/02/2022, 11:06, "osgeolive on behalf of Angelos Tzotsos" <osgeolive-bounces at lists.osgeo.org on behalf of gcpp.kalxas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Barend,
>>
>> We do not have an ARM version. This would require more developer
>>
>> resources than we currently have, so there is currently no plan to
>>
>> support this architecture.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Angelos
>>
>> On 2/2/22 01:24, Kobben, Barend (UT-ITC) wrote:
>>
>>     For installation in the Parallels virtual machine on a new MacPro (running on the Apple silicon architecture), an ARM version instead of an Intel version is needed. Is that available, or will in be...? Or are there alternative ways to get it running on a Mac M1...?
>>
>>     --
>>
>>     Barend Köbben
>>
>>     Senior Lecturer – ITC-GIP & ATLAS, University Twente
>>
>>     PO Box 217, 7500 AE Enschede (The Netherlands)
>>
>>     +31-(0)53 4874 253 / room 1-065 ITC
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>
>>     osgeolive mailing list
>>
>>     osgeolive at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeolive
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
>>
>> President
>>
>> Open Source Geospatial Foundation
>>
>> http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> osgeolive mailing list
>>
>> osgeolive at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeolive
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> osgeolive mailing list
>> osgeolive at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeolive
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/osgeolive/attachments/20220208/ffc3a206/attachment-0001.html>