[postgis-devel] Vote on Merging postgis and raster installs andwhen

Tue Jan 3 08:50:55 PST 2012

Right, if they are separate extensions, this should be straightforward. 
If they are one extension, we would be replacing the postgis extension 
with the same version of postgis extension, is essentially "more 
extended". It seems there would be no way to specify an update script 
for this case, so we might be forced to unload the existing postgis 
extension, destroying our data if we don't do a dump/restore.

On the other hand, perhaps having them as two separate extensions would 
make upgrading rather complicated (or impossible without a dump-restore) 
in the case that updating the postgis extension could possibly break the 
old postgis-raster extension until the new postgis-raster extension. Or 
maybe there are ways to handle this?

Chris

On 12-01-03 08:40 AM, Bborie Park wrote:
> Oops.  Sorry Chris.  I guess I misunderstood your question.
>
> In my limited understanding of EXTENSIONS, I'd hazard a guess that you
> should be able to install a raster extension on top of the postgis
> extension without needing to a dump/reload cycle.  Regina would know
> best though.
>
> -bborie
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Chris Hodgson<chodgson at refractions.net>  wrote:
>> Thanks bborie, I understand this, but I'm asking more about the constraints
>> introduced by the Postgres "extension" mechanism than the actual
>> dependencies.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On 12-01-03 08:29 AM, Bborie Park wrote:
>>> Yes.  Nothing in geometry and geography depends on or is affected by
>>> the raster component.  The raster component does call a few lwgeom
>>> functions though.  So, you would not need to do a dump/restore if you
>>> were looking to add raster support to an existing PostGIS system.
>>>
>>> -bborie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Chris Hodgson<chodgson at refractions.net>
>>>   wrote:
>>>> If I (or my packager) compile postgis without raster support, and I
>>>> install
>>>> it and have data in it, can I add raster support to it later - without
>>>> dumping all my data? I think I can with a separate postgis-raster
>>>> extension.
>>>> Is it possible with everything in one extension? Might be a useful case
>>>> to
>>>> support... I can see the case for monolithic packaging as well though.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12-01-02 09:06 AM, Paragon Corporation wrote:
>>>>> strk,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm fine with raster and topology being dis-abable, but I think the
>>>>> default
>>>>> should be they are automatically installed and you have to do an
>>>>> explicit
>>>>> w/out to not get them.  Since topology is in its own
>>>>> schema -- it has to be a separate extension.  For raster -- I need to
>>>>> know
>>>>> if people feel this should stay separated as like I said --
>>>>> that means I have to break it back out as its own extension.
>>>>>
>>>>> For topology there is no extra dependency (except possibly for it
>>>>> needing
>>>>> GEOS 3.3 or higher, but like I said I think its pretty stupid we don't
>>>>> require GEOS 3.3 for PostGIS 2.0.0 or at least have a glaring wanrning
>>>>> you
>>>>> need to do a w-out 3.3 to get past). So there really is no excuse for it
>>>>> not
>>>>> being turned on by default.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think packagers necessarily leave these things out or use lower
>>>>> versions that don't have all features enabled, I think we put them in
>>>>> that
>>>>> trap
>>>>> by not warning them they are missing things. After all they package for
>>>>> a
>>>>> lot of things not jsut PostGIS and I know as a packager its hard. As a
>>>>> PostGIS user things being left out really frustrates me which is one
>>>>> reason
>>>>> I can see why some windows users are afraid of using Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Regina
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.net
>>>>>> [mailto:postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.net] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Paragon Corporation
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 11:38 AM
>>>>>> To: 'PostGIS Development Discussion'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] Vote on Merging postgis and
>>>>>> raster installs andwhen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not a big fan of monolithic systems.
>>>>>> I am -- I hate stuff I can't count on not being there
>>>>>> especially if I don't have the ability to compile my own.
>>>>>> E.g. it drives me nuts when the packager decides to package
>>>>>> an antiquated GEOS and half the things I need are disabled as
>>>>>> a result. The same I see with raster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's the rationale for forcing anyone who only needs
>>>>>> vectors to also
>>>>>>> have support for rasters ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Even for projects I won't really need core raster for, I
>>>>>> plan to use it for in the database reporting -- e.g.
>>>>>> outputting geometries in my report writer without need for
>>>>>> extra mapping software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems more of a packaging issue to me, and I see packagers
>>>>>> usually do
>>>>>>> more splitting than upstream (breaking packages in -core, -dev,
>>>>>>> -utils, -doc, ...)
>>>>>> Well - I need to know now.  Because when I had raster as a
>>>>>> separate extension, I distinctly remember Paul saying -- "Why
>>>>>> don't you have it as part of postgis extension?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I merged them.  I can't have some postgis 2.0.0 extensions
>>>>>> having raster support and some not. Since an extension is
>>>>>> more than packaging.  It means -- these are the functions you
>>>>>> have -- no pick and choose.  If it is then it has to be a
>>>>>> separate extension.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For PostGIS 2.0.0 -- raster is a big piece of it.  It would
>>>>>> be a shame for people to not get vector support just because
>>>>>> their package manager felt they didn't need it.  Trust me
>>>>>> there will be some of those and it will be the same annoying
>>>>>> issue I have to deal with when I have to compile my own
>>>>>> PostGIS  because the packager decided I didn't need all my
>>>>>> functions and gave  me a half-assed version of GEOS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> REgina
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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