[postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
Frank Henze
henze at tu-cottbus.de
Sun Dec 15 12:10:11 PST 2013
I dont know, at which point the downsampling should take place.
An interesting solution for webbased visualization could be XB Point Stream:
http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/XB_PointStream
Frank
Am 15.12.2013 00:45, schrieb Rémi Cura:
> I guess everybody has reached the same conclusion :
> using pointcloud is is possible to manage 100's of billions of points
> and retrieve quickly those of interest.
>
> Now most of the usage requiere severe downsampling, which isn't a part
> of anything yet but may come (I'm working on adding this to pointcloud).
> .
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rémi-C
>
>
> 2013/12/12 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>
>
> Frank,
>
> I don't know about a group, or for that matter centering it on just
> PostGIS, but I see 3D as the next big Mapping product line that
> people are going to be looking for. PostGIS is a piece in a bigger
> puzzle. I've been researching different methods for storing and
> segmenting the point cloud data on the server side for a while now
> and PostGIS has percolated up to near the top of the list.
>
> There is a big piece related in how to generalize data for 3D
> scaling in the browser, that's the biggest shortcoming I've become
> aware of in order to make something run nicely in the browser, I've
> also of late been forcing myself to think mobile, which has it's own
> set of criteria as far as the browser goes.
>
> I would likely join the list of something call PostGIS 3d, but I
> don't know that there is enough interest for a whole community
> (yet), maybe it's better to stay ahead of the curve though.
>
>
> Bobb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank Henze
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:17 PM
> To: PostGIS Users Discussion
> Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>
> Hi all,
>
> briefly a few details to http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/:
>
> - Projektauswahl: Baalbek and Palatin are static X3D models (no
> PostGIS)
> - Projektauswahl: W3DS is dynamically generated from a PostGIS 2.0 DB
> via a "GetScene"-request by Geoserver
>
> I think Baalbek is too large (too many triangles) and therefore
> possibly leads to crash. Palatin and W3DS should work.
>
> The 3D window is a standard WebGL window based on X3DOM. So it
> should run right stable.
>
> Once again my question:
> Is there an interest in a PostGIS 3D group?
>
> Frank
>
> Am 12.12.2013 16:55, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
> > Frank,
> >
> > Very nice. It froze up for me pretty quickly, I tried both FF
> and Chrome. Still looked good while it ran.
> >
> > This stability aspect is a big piece of being able to make
> something that folks will want to use. Data segregation will be a
> big piece moving forward I think.
> >
> > Bobb
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> > [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
> > Henze
> > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:04 AM
> > To: PostGIS Users Discussion
> > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >
> > Hi Bobb,
> > hi all,
> >
> > https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ looks great!
> >
> > We have similar requirements for a 3d WebGIS.
> > A first prototype you can find at:
> >
> > http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
> >
> > For "Projektauswahl:" select "W3DS"
> >
> > and then select "Historische Gebäude" (Historical Buildings)
> >
> > If there is nothing to see, then press on the left side "Alles
> anzeigen"
> >
> > We use the community buildt Geoserver incl. Web 3D service +
> X3DOM + JS.
> >
> > Some of our problems:
> >
> > How to import 3D geometries into PostGIS?
> > Which formats and interfaces (CAD, X3D)?
> > Point clouds in PostGIS (also import of).
> >
> > Is there a 3D PostGIS interest-group?
> > If not, should one established?
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Am 11.12.2013 17:44, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Nothing that far along. Did a couple of proofs of concept so far,
> >> I've done a couple of presentations on the Visualizer approach. We
> >> tried a couple of different things, x3Dom, allover'js
> >>
> >> You can see some of them here ( some of the pages take a while to
> >> load the data in the background, be patient):
> >>
> >> https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ (these will generally need a
> >> webGL enabled browser)
> >>
> >> These are purely intended as a test of just how much data could
> >> easily be squished into the browser before if blows, so you
> might experience
> >> some failures. Ideally the data coming into these would be
> segmented
> >> via a SQL call to PostGIS Pointcloud sources.
> >>
> >> The last two in the list are using some point clouds cut from our
> >> recent data collect at 8pt per sq meter for the City (6 billion
> >> points in all), these are using about 300k points each for example.
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] *On Behalf Of *Rémi
> >> Cura
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:08 AM
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> I would be very interested to know any attempt to visualize 3D point
> >> cloud from data base !
> >>
> >> We did the same but our solution is far from perfect.
> >>
> >> Bob, is you rporject public/open source, have you any paper/doc
> about it ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Rémi-C
> >>
> >> 2013/12/11 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
> >> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>>
> >>
> >> Hmm,
> >>
> >> I'm working with the Minneapolis International Airport (MSP) on a
> >> project, any chance that data is open/accessible enough to play
> with?
> >> This could tie directly into a project I'm already working on.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:14 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> Bob, all:
> >>
> >> I agree. I'll have to spend some time with pointcloud but it DOES
> >> look very promising.
> >>
> >> Another application? Lidar. Pointed at the sky, not at the
> ground (we
> >> use 'em to determine cloud layers [ceiling] and sky cover at
> airports
> >> for aviation data...).
> >>
> >> Thanks, all!
> >>
> >> gerry
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
> >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gerry,
> >>
> >> Remi's idea about using a point cloud may be spot on for your use.
> >> It allows you to set a point cloud down to a revolution if need be,
> >> which seems like what you are looking for.. If the data becomes too
> >> massive for insertion into DB at real-time speeds, then you could
> >> also separate this revolution into separate DB's as well, you could
> >> separate a whole number of ways, by elevation, or quadrant, or . . .
> >>
> >> I'm very interested in visualization possibilities with something
> >> like this being available in a database. We're doing some
> similar db
> >> 3d visualization stuff on some rather dense point clouds. Your data
> >> once available could use the same visualizer.
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:41 PM
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> At least preliminarily, I can post-process, so speed of db adds
> isn't
> >> too troubling. Maintaining accurate representation of the bin-volume
> >> data is, however, important.
> >>
> >> Typical rotation is 1-3 RPM, and a complete volume scan takes
> ~11 min
> >> in clear air (where you best see biologicals if so inclined) or ~5
> >> min in one of the storm data collection modes. These are for common
> >> WSR88D, stationary radars. SMARTR's and others we have here that are
> >> mobile present a whole host of other options/data eval and speed
> problems.
> >>
> >> Current radar data are nominally considered to have a horizontal
> >> resolution of ~250 m, ignoring distortion or keyholing due to
> >> range.Typically 16 elevations are scanned, once or or twice in storm
> >> mode and a few less elevations in clear air mode.
> >>
> >> Now, the interesting thing that's on the horizon is Phased Array
> Radar.
> >> When that happens, more data, more resolution, and faster updates.
> >>
> >> gerry
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
> >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gerry,
> >>
> >> Seems like the biggest hangup would be in adding the data to the DB
> >> fast enough. How many points, per revolution, and what is the
> >> frequency of a revolution (stationary Radar, correct, although as I
> >> think about it, it could be mobile if needed, just need to add
> in the
> >> radar location to each record)?
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:52 AM
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> I asked this years ago, and I think Paul was less than pleased with
> >> me (:-), but:
> >>
> >> Has anyone, in the ensuing years looked at encoding radar data
> into a
> >> postGIS database? We've a little idea that might benefit one
> project,
> >> and getting the radar data into a good geospatial format would be
> >> beneficial.The data, of coure, would start out as
> radial-distance and
> >> intensity from the radar site, although we could preprocess it
> by gridding.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Gerry
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gerry Creager
> >>
> >> NSSL/CIMMS
> >>
> >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
> >>
> >> That feed on their velocity;
> >>
> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> >>
> >> And so on to viscosity."
> >>
> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gerry Creager
> >>
> >> NSSL/CIMMS
> >>
> >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
> >>
> >> That feed on their velocity;
> >>
> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> >>
> >> And so on to viscosity."
> >>
> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gerry Creager
> >>
> >> NSSL/CIMMS
> >>
> >> 405.325.6371
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
> >>
> >> That feed on their velocity;
> >>
> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> >>
> >> And so on to viscosity."
> >>
> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
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> >
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