[postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
Stephen Mather
stephen at smathermather.com
Sun Dec 15 12:49:31 PST 2013
That's nice-- it's the first one I've seen to focus on visualization of
point clouds specifically.
Best,
Steve
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Frank Henze <henze at tu-cottbus.de> wrote:
> I dont know, at which point the downsampling should take place.
> An interesting solution for webbased visualization could be XB Point
> Stream:
> http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/XB_PointStream
>
> Frank
>
> Am 15.12.2013 00:45, schrieb Rémi Cura:
>
>> I guess everybody has reached the same conclusion :
>> using pointcloud is is possible to manage 100's of billions of points
>> and retrieve quickly those of interest.
>>
>> Now most of the usage requiere severe downsampling, which isn't a part
>> of anything yet but may come (I'm working on adding this to pointcloud).
>> .
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rémi-C
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/12 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>
>>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> I don't know about a group, or for that matter centering it on just
>> PostGIS, but I see 3D as the next big Mapping product line that
>> people are going to be looking for. PostGIS is a piece in a bigger
>> puzzle. I've been researching different methods for storing and
>> segmenting the point cloud data on the server side for a while now
>> and PostGIS has percolated up to near the top of the list.
>>
>> There is a big piece related in how to generalize data for 3D
>> scaling in the browser, that's the biggest shortcoming I've become
>> aware of in order to make something run nicely in the browser, I've
>> also of late been forcing myself to think mobile, which has it's own
>> set of criteria as far as the browser goes.
>>
>> I would likely join the list of something call PostGIS 3d, but I
>> don't know that there is enough interest for a whole community
>> (yet), maybe it's better to stay ahead of the curve though.
>>
>>
>> Bobb
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
>> Henze
>> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:17 PM
>> To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> briefly a few details to http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
>> :
>>
>> - Projektauswahl: Baalbek and Palatin are static X3D models (no
>> PostGIS)
>> - Projektauswahl: W3DS is dynamically generated from a PostGIS 2.0
>> DB
>> via a "GetScene"-request by Geoserver
>>
>> I think Baalbek is too large (too many triangles) and therefore
>> possibly leads to crash. Palatin and W3DS should work.
>>
>> The 3D window is a standard WebGL window based on X3DOM. So it
>> should run right stable.
>>
>> Once again my question:
>> Is there an interest in a PostGIS 3D group?
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> Am 12.12.2013 16:55, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
>> > Frank,
>> >
>> > Very nice. It froze up for me pretty quickly, I tried both FF
>> and Chrome. Still looked good while it ran.
>> >
>> > This stability aspect is a big piece of being able to make
>> something that folks will want to use. Data segregation will be a
>> big piece moving forward I think.
>> >
>> > Bobb
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
>> > Henze
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:04 AM
>> > To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> >
>> > Hi Bobb,
>> > hi all,
>> >
>> > https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ looks great!
>> >
>> > We have similar requirements for a 3d WebGIS.
>> > A first prototype you can find at:
>> >
>> > http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
>> >
>> > For "Projektauswahl:" select "W3DS"
>> >
>> > and then select "Historische Gebäude" (Historical Buildings)
>> >
>> > If there is nothing to see, then press on the left side "Alles
>> anzeigen"
>> >
>> > We use the community buildt Geoserver incl. Web 3D service +
>> X3DOM + JS.
>> >
>> > Some of our problems:
>> >
>> > How to import 3D geometries into PostGIS?
>> > Which formats and interfaces (CAD, X3D)?
>> > Point clouds in PostGIS (also import of).
>> >
>> > Is there a 3D PostGIS interest-group?
>> > If not, should one established?
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > Am 11.12.2013 17:44, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
>> >> All,
>> >>
>> >> Nothing that far along. Did a couple of proofs of concept so far,
>> >> I've done a couple of presentations on the Visualizer approach.
>> We
>> >> tried a couple of different things, x3Dom, allover'js
>> >>
>> >> You can see some of them here ( some of the pages take a while to
>> >> load the data in the background, be patient):
>> >>
>> >> https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ (these will generally need a
>> >> webGL enabled browser)
>> >>
>> >> These are purely intended as a test of just how much data could
>> >> easily be squished into the browser before if blows, so you
>> might experience
>> >> some failures. Ideally the data coming into these would be
>> segmented
>> >> via a SQL call to PostGIS Pointcloud sources.
>> >>
>> >> The last two in the list are using some point clouds cut from our
>> >> recent data collect at 8pt per sq meter for the City (6 billion
>> >> points in all), these are using about 300k points each for
>> example.
>> >>
>> >> Bobb
>> >>
>> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] *On Behalf Of *Rémi
>>
>> >> Cura
>> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:08 AM
>> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> >>
>> >> I would be very interested to know any attempt to visualize 3D
>> point
>> >> cloud from data base !
>> >>
>> >> We did the same but our solution is far from perfect.
>> >>
>> >> Bob, is you rporject public/open source, have you any paper/doc
>> about it ?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> Rémi-C
>> >>
>> >> 2013/12/11 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>> >> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>>
>> >>
>> >> Hmm,
>> >>
>> >> I'm working with the Minneapolis International Airport (MSP) on a
>> >> project, any chance that data is open/accessible enough to play
>> with?
>> >> This could tie directly into a project I'm already working on.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Bobb
>> >>
>> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
>> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:14 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> >>
>> >> Bob, all:
>> >>
>> >> I agree. I'll have to spend some time with pointcloud but it DOES
>> >> look very promising.
>> >>
>> >> Another application? Lidar. Pointed at the sky, not at the
>> ground (we
>> >> use 'em to determine cloud layers [ceiling] and sky cover at
>> airports
>> >> for aviation data...).
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, all!
>> >>
>> >> gerry
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
>> >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Gerry,
>> >>
>> >> Remi's idea about using a point cloud may be spot on for your use.
>> >> It allows you to set a point cloud down to a revolution if need
>> be,
>> >> which seems like what you are looking for.. If the data becomes
>> too
>> >> massive for insertion into DB at real-time speeds, then you could
>> >> also separate this revolution into separate DB's as well, you
>> could
>> >> separate a whole number of ways, by elevation, or quadrant, or .
>> . .
>> >>
>> >> I'm very interested in visualization possibilities with something
>> >> like this being available in a database. We're doing some
>> similar db
>> >> 3d visualization stuff on some rather dense point clouds. Your
>> data
>> >> once available could use the same visualizer.
>> >>
>> >> Bobb
>> >>
>> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
>> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:41 PM
>> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >> At least preliminarily, I can post-process, so speed of db adds
>> isn't
>> >> too troubling. Maintaining accurate representation of the
>> bin-volume
>> >> data is, however, important.
>> >>
>> >> Typical rotation is 1-3 RPM, and a complete volume scan takes
>> ~11 min
>> >> in clear air (where you best see biologicals if so inclined) or ~5
>> >> min in one of the storm data collection modes. These are for
>> common
>> >> WSR88D, stationary radars. SMARTR's and others we have here that
>> are
>> >> mobile present a whole host of other options/data eval and speed
>> problems.
>> >>
>> >> Current radar data are nominally considered to have a horizontal
>> >> resolution of ~250 m, ignoring distortion or keyholing due to
>> >> range.Typically 16 elevations are scanned, once or or twice in
>> storm
>> >> mode and a few less elevations in clear air mode.
>> >>
>> >> Now, the interesting thing that's on the horizon is Phased Array
>> Radar.
>> >> When that happens, more data, more resolution, and faster updates.
>> >>
>> >> gerry
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
>> >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Gerry,
>> >>
>> >> Seems like the biggest hangup would be in adding the data to the
>> DB
>> >> fast enough. How many points, per revolution, and what is the
>> >> frequency of a revolution (stationary Radar, correct, although as
>> I
>> >> think about it, it could be mobile if needed, just need to add
>> in the
>> >> radar location to each record)?
>> >>
>> >> Bobb
>> >>
>> >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
>> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:52 AM
>> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> >> *Subject:* [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> >>
>> >> I asked this years ago, and I think Paul was less than pleased
>> with
>> >> me (:-), but:
>> >>
>> >> Has anyone, in the ensuing years looked at encoding radar data
>> into a
>> >> postGIS database? We've a little idea that might benefit one
>> project,
>> >> and getting the radar data into a good geospatial format would be
>> >> beneficial.The data, of coure, would start out as
>> radial-distance and
>> >> intensity from the radar site, although we could preprocess it
>> by gridding.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, Gerry
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Gerry Creager
>> >>
>> >> NSSL/CIMMS
>> >>
>> >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
>> >>
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>
>> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>> >>
>> >> That feed on their velocity;
>> >>
>> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>> >>
>> >> And so on to viscosity."
>> >>
>> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> postgis-users mailing list
>> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Gerry Creager
>> >>
>> >> NSSL/CIMMS
>> >>
>> >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
>> >>
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>
>> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>> >>
>> >> That feed on their velocity;
>> >>
>> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>> >>
>> >> And so on to viscosity."
>> >>
>> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> postgis-users mailing list
>> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Gerry Creager
>> >>
>> >> NSSL/CIMMS
>> >>
>> >> 405.325.6371
>> >>
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>
>> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>> >>
>> >> That feed on their velocity;
>> >>
>> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>> >>
>> >> And so on to viscosity."
>> >>
>> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> postgis-users mailing list
>> >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> postgis-users mailing list
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>> osgeo.org>
>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >>
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