[postgis-users] Old question resurfacing

Stephen Mather stephen at smathermather.com
Sun Dec 15 12:49:31 PST 2013


That's nice-- it's the first one I've seen to focus on visualization of
point clouds specifically.

Best,
Steve


On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Frank Henze <henze at tu-cottbus.de> wrote:

> I dont know, at which point the downsampling should take place.
> An interesting solution for webbased visualization could be XB Point
> Stream:
> http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/XB_PointStream
>
> Frank
>
> Am 15.12.2013 00:45, schrieb Rémi Cura:
>
>> I guess everybody has reached the same conclusion :
>> using pointcloud is is possible to manage 100's of billions of points
>> and retrieve quickly those of interest.
>>
>> Now most of the usage requiere severe downsampling, which isn't a part
>> of anything yet but may come (I'm working on adding this to pointcloud).
>> .
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rémi-C
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/12 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>
>>
>>
>>     Frank,
>>
>>     I don't know about a group, or for that matter centering it on just
>>     PostGIS, but I see 3D as the next big Mapping product line that
>>     people are going to be looking for.  PostGIS is a piece in a bigger
>>     puzzle.  I've been researching different methods for storing and
>>     segmenting the point cloud data on the server side for a while now
>>     and PostGIS has percolated up to near the top of the list.
>>
>>     There is a big piece related in how to generalize data for 3D
>>     scaling in the browser, that's the biggest shortcoming I've become
>>     aware of in order to make something run nicely in the browser, I've
>>     also of late been forcing myself to think mobile, which has it's own
>>     set of criteria as far as the browser goes.
>>
>>     I would likely join the list of something call PostGIS 3d, but I
>>     don't know that there is enough interest for a whole community
>>     (yet), maybe it's better to stay ahead of the curve though.
>>
>>
>>     Bobb
>>
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
>> Henze
>>     Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:17 PM
>>     To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>>     Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>
>>     Hi all,
>>
>>     briefly a few details to http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
>> :
>>
>>     - Projektauswahl: Baalbek  and  Palatin  are static X3D models (no
>>     PostGIS)
>>     - Projektauswahl: W3DS   is dynamically generated from a PostGIS 2.0
>> DB
>>     via a "GetScene"-request by Geoserver
>>
>>     I think Baalbek is too large (too many triangles) and therefore
>>     possibly leads to crash. Palatin and W3DS should work.
>>
>>     The 3D window is a standard WebGL window based on X3DOM. So it
>>     should run right stable.
>>
>>     Once again my question:
>>     Is there an interest in a PostGIS 3D group?
>>
>>     Frank
>>
>>     Am 12.12.2013 16:55, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
>>      > Frank,
>>      >
>>      > Very nice.  It froze up for me pretty quickly, I tried both FF
>>     and Chrome.  Still looked good while it ran.
>>      >
>>      > This stability aspect is a big piece of being able to make
>>     something that folks will want to use.  Data segregation will be a
>>     big piece moving forward I think.
>>      >
>>      > Bobb
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > -----Original Message-----
>>      > From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      > [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
>>      > Henze
>>      > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:04 AM
>>      > To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>>      > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>      >
>>      > Hi Bobb,
>>      > hi all,
>>      >
>>      > https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ looks great!
>>      >
>>      > We have similar requirements for a 3d WebGIS.
>>      > A first prototype you can find at:
>>      >
>>      > http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
>>      >
>>      > For "Projektauswahl:" select "W3DS"
>>      >
>>      > and then select "Historische Gebäude" (Historical Buildings)
>>      >
>>      > If there is nothing to see, then press on the left side "Alles
>>     anzeigen"
>>      >
>>      > We use the community buildt Geoserver incl. Web 3D service +
>>     X3DOM + JS.
>>      >
>>      > Some of our problems:
>>      >
>>      > How to import 3D geometries into PostGIS?
>>      > Which formats and interfaces (CAD, X3D)?
>>      > Point clouds in PostGIS (also import of).
>>      >
>>      > Is there a 3D PostGIS interest-group?
>>      > If not, should one established?
>>      >
>>      > Frank
>>      >
>>      > Am 11.12.2013 17:44, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
>>      >> All,
>>      >>
>>      >> Nothing that far along.  Did a couple of proofs of concept so far,
>>      >> I've done a couple of presentations on the Visualizer approach.
>>  We
>>      >> tried a couple of different things, x3Dom, allover'js
>>      >>
>>      >> You can see some of them here ( some of the  pages take a while to
>>      >> load the data in the background, be patient):
>>      >>
>>      >> https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/  (these will generally need a
>>      >> webGL enabled browser)
>>      >>
>>      >> These are purely intended as a test of just how much data could
>>      >> easily be squished into the browser before if blows, so you
>>     might experience
>>      >> some failures.   Ideally the data coming into these would be
>>     segmented
>>      >> via a SQL call to PostGIS Pointcloud sources.
>>      >>
>>      >> The last two in the list are using some point clouds cut from our
>>      >> recent data collect at 8pt per sq meter for the City (6 billion
>>      >> points in all), these are using about 300k points each for
>> example.
>>      >>
>>      >> Bobb
>>      >>
>>      >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] *On Behalf Of *Rémi
>>
>>      >> Cura
>>      >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:08 AM
>>      >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>>      >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>      >>
>>      >> I would be very interested to know any attempt to visualize 3D
>> point
>>      >> cloud from data base !
>>      >>
>>      >> We did the same but our solution is far from perfect.
>>      >>
>>      >> Bob, is you rporject public/open source, have you any paper/doc
>>       about it ?
>>      >>
>>      >> Cheers,
>>      >>
>>      >> Rémi-C
>>      >>
>>      >> 2013/12/11 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>>      >> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>>
>>      >>
>>      >> Hmm,
>>      >>
>>      >> I'm working with the Minneapolis International Airport (MSP) on a
>>      >> project, any chance that  data is open/accessible enough to play
>>     with?
>>      >> This could tie directly into a project I'm already working on.
>>      >>
>>      >> Thanks
>>      >>
>>      >> Bobb
>>      >>
>>      >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>      >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
>>      >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>>      >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:14 PM
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>>      >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>      >>
>>      >> Bob, all:
>>      >>
>>      >> I agree. I'll have to spend some time with pointcloud but it DOES
>>      >> look very promising.
>>      >>
>>      >> Another application? Lidar. Pointed at the sky, not at the
>>     ground (we
>>      >> use 'em to determine cloud layers [ceiling] and sky cover at
>>     airports
>>      >> for aviation data...).
>>      >>
>>      >> Thanks, all!
>>      >>
>>      >> gerry
>>      >>
>>      >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
>>      >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >> Gerry,
>>      >>
>>      >> Remi's idea about using a point cloud may be spot on for your use.
>>      >> It allows you to set a point cloud down to a revolution if need
>> be,
>>      >> which seems like what you are looking for..  If the data becomes
>> too
>>      >> massive for insertion into DB at real-time speeds, then you could
>>      >> also separate this revolution into separate DB's as well, you
>> could
>>      >> separate a whole number of ways, by elevation, or quadrant, or .
>> . .
>>      >>
>>      >> I'm very interested in visualization possibilities with something
>>      >> like this being available in a database.  We're doing some
>>     similar db
>>      >> 3d visualization stuff on some rather dense point clouds.  Your
>> data
>>      >> once available could use the same visualizer.
>>      >>
>>      >> Bobb
>>      >>
>>      >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>      >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
>>      >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>>      >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:41 PM
>>      >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>>      >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>      >>
>>      >> Bob
>>      >>
>>      >> At least preliminarily, I can post-process, so speed of db adds
>>     isn't
>>      >> too troubling. Maintaining accurate representation of the
>> bin-volume
>>      >> data is, however, important.
>>      >>
>>      >> Typical rotation is 1-3 RPM, and a complete volume scan takes
>>     ~11 min
>>      >> in clear air (where you best see biologicals if so inclined) or ~5
>>      >> min in one of the storm data collection modes. These are for
>> common
>>      >> WSR88D, stationary radars. SMARTR's and others we have here that
>> are
>>      >> mobile present a whole host of other options/data eval and speed
>>     problems.
>>      >>
>>      >> Current radar data are nominally considered to have a horizontal
>>      >> resolution of ~250 m, ignoring distortion or keyholing due to
>>      >> range.Typically 16 elevations are scanned, once or or twice in
>> storm
>>      >> mode and a few less elevations in clear air mode.
>>      >>
>>      >> Now, the interesting thing that's on the horizon is Phased Array
>>     Radar.
>>      >> When that happens, more data, more resolution, and faster updates.
>>      >>
>>      >> gerry
>>      >>
>>      >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
>>      >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>>
>>     <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >> Gerry,
>>      >>
>>      >> Seems like the biggest hangup would be in adding the data to the
>> DB
>>      >> fast enough.  How many points, per revolution, and what is the
>>      >> frequency of a revolution (stationary Radar, correct, although as
>> I
>>      >> think about it, it could be mobile if needed, just need to add
>>     in the
>>      >> radar location to each record)?
>>      >>
>>      >> Bobb
>>      >>
>>      >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>      >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>      >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
>>      >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>>      >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:52 AM
>>      >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>>      >> *Subject:* [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>      >>
>>      >> I asked this years ago, and I think Paul was less than pleased
>> with
>>      >> me (:-), but:
>>      >>
>>      >> Has anyone, in the ensuing years looked at encoding radar data
>>     into a
>>      >> postGIS database? We've a little idea that might benefit one
>>     project,
>>      >> and getting the radar data into a good geospatial format would be
>>      >> beneficial.The data, of coure, would start out as
>>     radial-distance and
>>      >> intensity from the radar site, although we could preprocess it
>>     by gridding.
>>      >>
>>      >> Thanks, Gerry
>>      >>
>>      >> --
>>      >>
>>      >> Gerry Creager
>>      >>
>>      >> NSSL/CIMMS
>>      >>
>>      >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
>>      >>
>>      >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>      >>
>>      >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>>      >>
>>      >> That feed on their velocity;
>>      >>
>>      >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>>      >>
>>      >> And so on to viscosity."
>>      >>
>>      >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >> _______________________________________________
>>      >> postgis-users mailing list
>>      >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>      >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >> --
>>      >>
>>      >> Gerry Creager
>>      >>
>>      >> NSSL/CIMMS
>>      >>
>>      >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
>>      >>
>>      >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>      >>
>>      >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>>      >>
>>      >> That feed on their velocity;
>>      >>
>>      >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>>      >>
>>      >> And so on to viscosity."
>>      >>
>>      >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >> _______________________________________________
>>      >> postgis-users mailing list
>>      >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>      >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >> --
>>      >>
>>      >> Gerry Creager
>>      >>
>>      >> NSSL/CIMMS
>>      >>
>>      >> 405.325.6371
>>      >>
>>      >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>      >>
>>      >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>>      >>
>>      >> That feed on their velocity;
>>      >>
>>      >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>>      >>
>>      >> And so on to viscosity."
>>      >>
>>      >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >> _______________________________________________
>>      >> postgis-users mailing list
>>      >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>>
>>     <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>      >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
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