[postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
Stephen Mather
stephen at smathermather.com
Wed Dec 18 00:22:01 PST 2013
Excellent!
On Dec 18, 2013 3:01 AM, "Rémi Cura" <remi.cura at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey,
> I contacted the developper of XB PointStream specifically to ask him how
> to plug it to a postgres DB.
> It is no more an active project and he advised against it.
>
> At the other hand, with a much better licence (FreeBSD), active dev, and
> build in level Of Detail (LOD) feature (scene graph):
> http://potree.org/
>
> I asked the same question and it would be possible to plug it to db.
> We only need to develop a LOD inside DB to to make it possible to use it
> with huge database (I'm talking about 10's of billions at least in base,
> and several millions in cache/browser). ( Here my gothub project doc, the
> project is not clean enough to be used by others, but the slides contains
> some images :
> https://github.com/Remi-C/LOD_ordering_for_patches_of_points/tree/master/doc
> )
>
> Current WebGL limit with most graphic card seems to be around 10^6 points,
> it is very small, hence the obligation to have LOD support to have maybe 10
> * 10^6 points in cache in LOD structure in browser, and display only 10^6
> points, but cleverly :
> more points close to viewer camera and in front of it, few points when far
> from viewer camera, zero point behind camera.
> These are very old and effective computer graphics tricks.
>
> Cheers,
> Rémi-C
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/12/17 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>
>> Hi Frank,
>>
>> I've been watching this approach develop over the past few year. Some
>> intereing approaches to using the point based methods of display that I've
>> zeroed in on use feature that they describe as Surfels and/or Splats. Just
>> Google those two key words and you'll see what I'm talking about.
>>
>> http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~matthias/Papers/Surfels.pdf
>>
>> One drawback to these approaches is that they are sort of a closed system
>> in that they concentrate on only displaying the point based features. In
>> the end, as a real world tool, I'll need to incorporate into this type of
>> visualizers, I means of mixing feature types. Surface tins, CAD models,
>> and Points. Having the points reside in a DB will both help with the
>> integration as well as allow some processing of things to be accomplished
>> on the fly in this mixed feature viewer.
>>
>> Bobb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [mailto:
>> postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Frank Henze
>> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:10 PM
>> To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>>
>> I dont know, at which point the downsampling should take place.
>> An interesting solution for webbased visualization could be XB Point
>> Stream:
>> http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/XB_PointStream
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> Am 15.12.2013 00:45, schrieb Rémi Cura:
>> > I guess everybody has reached the same conclusion :
>> > using pointcloud is is possible to manage 100's of billions of points
>> > and retrieve quickly those of interest.
>> >
>> > Now most of the usage requiere severe downsampling, which isn't a part
>> > of anything yet but may come (I'm working on adding this to pointcloud).
>> > .
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Rémi-C
>> >
>> >
>> > 2013/12/12 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>
>> >
>> > Frank,
>> >
>> > I don't know about a group, or for that matter centering it on just
>> > PostGIS, but I see 3D as the next big Mapping product line that
>> > people are going to be looking for. PostGIS is a piece in a bigger
>> > puzzle. I've been researching different methods for storing and
>> > segmenting the point cloud data on the server side for a while now
>> > and PostGIS has percolated up to near the top of the list.
>> >
>> > There is a big piece related in how to generalize data for 3D
>> > scaling in the browser, that's the biggest shortcoming I've become
>> > aware of in order to make something run nicely in the browser, I've
>> > also of late been forcing myself to think mobile, which has it's own
>> > set of criteria as far as the browser goes.
>> >
>> > I would likely join the list of something call PostGIS 3d, but I
>> > don't know that there is enough interest for a whole community
>> > (yet), maybe it's better to stay ahead of the curve though.
>> >
>> >
>> > Bobb
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
>> Henze
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:17 PM
>> > To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > briefly a few details to
>> http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/:
>> >
>> > - Projektauswahl: Baalbek and Palatin are static X3D models (no
>> > PostGIS)
>> > - Projektauswahl: W3DS is dynamically generated from a PostGIS
>> 2.0 DB
>> > via a "GetScene"-request by Geoserver
>> >
>> > I think Baalbek is too large (too many triangles) and therefore
>> > possibly leads to crash. Palatin and W3DS should work.
>> >
>> > The 3D window is a standard WebGL window based on X3DOM. So it
>> > should run right stable.
>> >
>> > Once again my question:
>> > Is there an interest in a PostGIS 3D group?
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > Am 12.12.2013 16:55, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
>> > > Frank,
>> > >
>> > > Very nice. It froze up for me pretty quickly, I tried both FF
>> > and Chrome. Still looked good while it ran.
>> > >
>> > > This stability aspect is a big piece of being able to make
>> > something that folks will want to use. Data segregation will be a
>> > big piece moving forward I think.
>> > >
>> > > Bobb
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > > [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] On Behalf Of Frank
>> > > Henze
>> > > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:04 AM
>> > > To: PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> > >
>> > > Hi Bobb,
>> > > hi all,
>> > >
>> > > https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ looks great!
>> > >
>> > > We have similar requirements for a 3d WebGIS.
>> > > A first prototype you can find at:
>> > >
>> > > http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
>> > >
>> > > For "Projektauswahl:" select "W3DS"
>> > >
>> > > and then select "Historische Gebäude" (Historical Buildings)
>> > >
>> > > If there is nothing to see, then press on the left side "Alles
>> > anzeigen"
>> > >
>> > > We use the community buildt Geoserver incl. Web 3D service +
>> > X3DOM + JS.
>> > >
>> > > Some of our problems:
>> > >
>> > > How to import 3D geometries into PostGIS?
>> > > Which formats and interfaces (CAD, X3D)?
>> > > Point clouds in PostGIS (also import of).
>> > >
>> > > Is there a 3D PostGIS interest-group?
>> > > If not, should one established?
>> > >
>> > > Frank
>> > >
>> > > Am 11.12.2013 17:44, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
>> > >> All,
>> > >>
>> > >> Nothing that far along. Did a couple of proofs of concept so
>> far,
>> > >> I've done a couple of presentations on the Visualizer approach.
>> We
>> > >> tried a couple of different things, x3Dom, allover'js
>> > >>
>> > >> You can see some of them here ( some of the pages take a while
>> to
>> > >> load the data in the background, be patient):
>> > >>
>> > >> https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ (these will generally
>> need a
>> > >> webGL enabled browser)
>> > >>
>> > >> These are purely intended as a test of just how much data could
>> > >> easily be squished into the browser before if blows, so you
>> > might experience
>> > >> some failures. Ideally the data coming into these would be
>> > segmented
>> > >> via a SQL call to PostGIS Pointcloud sources.
>> > >>
>> > >> The last two in the list are using some point clouds cut from
>> our
>> > >> recent data collect at 8pt per sq meter for the City (6 billion
>> > >> points in all), these are using about 300k points each for
>> example.
>> > >>
>> > >> Bobb
>> > >>
>> > >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] *On Behalf Of *Rémi
>> > >> Cura
>> > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:08 AM
>> > >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> > >>
>> > >> I would be very interested to know any attempt to visualize 3D
>> point
>> > >> cloud from data base !
>> > >>
>> > >> We did the same but our solution is far from perfect.
>> > >>
>> > >> Bob, is you rporject public/open source, have you any paper/doc
>> > about it ?
>> > >>
>> > >> Cheers,
>> > >>
>> > >> Rémi-C
>> > >>
>> > >> 2013/12/11 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <
>> bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>> > >> <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Hmm,
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm working with the Minneapolis International Airport (MSP) on
>> a
>> > >> project, any chance that data is open/accessible enough to play
>> > with?
>> > >> This could tie directly into a project I'm already working on.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks
>> > >>
>> > >> Bobb
>> > >>
>> > >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Gerry
>> > >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:14 PM
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> > >>
>> > >> Bob, all:
>> > >>
>> > >> I agree. I'll have to spend some time with pointcloud but it
>> DOES
>> > >> look very promising.
>> > >>
>> > >> Another application? Lidar. Pointed at the sky, not at the
>> > ground (we
>> > >> use 'em to determine cloud layers [ceiling] and sky cover at
>> > airports
>> > >> for aviation data...).
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks, all!
>> > >>
>> > >> gerry
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
>> > >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Gerry,
>> > >>
>> > >> Remi's idea about using a point cloud may be spot on for your
>> use.
>> > >> It allows you to set a point cloud down to a revolution if need
>> be,
>> > >> which seems like what you are looking for.. If the data
>> becomes too
>> > >> massive for insertion into DB at real-time speeds, then you
>> could
>> > >> also separate this revolution into separate DB's as well, you
>> could
>> > >> separate a whole number of ways, by elevation, or quadrant, or
>> . . .
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm very interested in visualization possibilities with
>> something
>> > >> like this being available in a database. We're doing some
>> > similar db
>> > >> 3d visualization stuff on some rather dense point clouds. Your
>> data
>> > >> once available could use the same visualizer.
>> > >>
>> > >> Bobb
>> > >>
>> > >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Gerry
>> > >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:41 PM
>> > >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> > >>
>> > >> Bob
>> > >>
>> > >> At least preliminarily, I can post-process, so speed of db adds
>> > isn't
>> > >> too troubling. Maintaining accurate representation of the
>> bin-volume
>> > >> data is, however, important.
>> > >>
>> > >> Typical rotation is 1-3 RPM, and a complete volume scan takes
>> > ~11 min
>> > >> in clear air (where you best see biologicals if so inclined) or
>> ~5
>> > >> min in one of the storm data collection modes. These are for
>> common
>> > >> WSR88D, stationary radars. SMARTR's and others we have here
>> that are
>> > >> mobile present a whole host of other options/data eval and speed
>> > problems.
>> > >>
>> > >> Current radar data are nominally considered to have a horizontal
>> > >> resolution of ~250 m, ignoring distortion or keyholing due to
>> > >> range.Typically 16 elevations are scanned, once or or twice in
>> storm
>> > >> mode and a few less elevations in clear air mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Now, the interesting thing that's on the horizon is Phased Array
>> > Radar.
>> > >> When that happens, more data, more resolution, and faster
>> updates.
>> > >>
>> > >> gerry
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
>> > >> <bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us
>> > <mailto:bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us>>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Gerry,
>> > >>
>> > >> Seems like the biggest hangup would be in adding the data to
>> the DB
>> > >> fast enough. How many points, per revolution, and what is the
>> > >> frequency of a revolution (stationary Radar, correct, although
>> as I
>> > >> think about it, it could be mobile if needed, just need to add
>> > in the
>> > >> radar location to each record)?
>> > >>
>> > >> Bobb
>> > >>
>> > >> *From:*postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Gerry
>> > >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:52 AM
>> > >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
>> > >> *Subject:* [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>> > >>
>> > >> I asked this years ago, and I think Paul was less than pleased
>> with
>> > >> me (:-), but:
>> > >>
>> > >> Has anyone, in the ensuing years looked at encoding radar data
>> > into a
>> > >> postGIS database? We've a little idea that might benefit one
>> > project,
>> > >> and getting the radar data into a good geospatial format would
>> be
>> > >> beneficial.The data, of coure, would start out as
>> > radial-distance and
>> > >> intensity from the radar site, although we could preprocess it
>> > by gridding.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks, Gerry
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> Gerry Creager
>> > >>
>> > >> NSSL/CIMMS
>> > >>
>> > >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
>> > >>
>> > >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> > >>
>> > >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>> > >>
>> > >> That feed on their velocity;
>> > >>
>> > >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>> > >>
>> > >> And so on to viscosity."
>> > >>
>> > >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> postgis-users mailing list
>> > >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> Gerry Creager
>> > >>
>> > >> NSSL/CIMMS
>> > >>
>> > >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
>> > >>
>> > >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> > >>
>> > >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>> > >>
>> > >> That feed on their velocity;
>> > >>
>> > >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>> > >>
>> > >> And so on to viscosity."
>> > >>
>> > >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> postgis-users mailing list
>> > >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> Gerry Creager
>> > >>
>> > >> NSSL/CIMMS
>> > >>
>> > >> 405.325.6371
>> > >>
>> > >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> > >>
>> > >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
>> > >>
>> > >> That feed on their velocity;
>> > >>
>> > >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
>> > >>
>> > >> And so on to viscosity."
>> > >>
>> > >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> postgis-users mailing list
>> > >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>>
>> > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> postgis-users mailing list
>> > >> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:
>> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > postgis-users mailing list
>> > > postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:
>> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > postgis-users mailing list
>> > > postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:
>> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > postgis-users mailing list
>> > postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> >
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > postgis-users mailing list
>> > postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> >
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > postgis-users mailing list
>> > postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> postgis-users mailing list
>> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> postgis-users mailing list
>> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> postgis-users mailing list
> postgis-users at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/postgis-users/attachments/20131218/57d9a876/attachment.html>
More information about the postgis-users
mailing list