[PROJ] Easting-Northing vs Northing-Easting

[Javier Jimenez Shaw]

Yes, of course it is the local convention (more on that later). My question
is if anybody knows why those local conventions.

For me, to denote coordinates mathematically in a Cartesian plane, the
natural order is x,y. (How we studied at school). With the X positive axis
going to the right, and Y positive axis to the top of the page.
Doing that with Cartesian coordinates in a map I would expect the same. And
it is the most common convention (easting-northing)
However, in some cases the ordering is northing-easting. Probably due to
historical reasons. I would like to know those reasons.
Those maps are displayed with north at the top of the map. You have to go
really back in time to see printed (or more probably painted) maps with the
East or the South on the top (I never saw West, but probably there are).

Of course people can do whatever they want (and usually do). I am
interested on the reasons for those different criteria. Is the influence of
this or that cartographer? Or in eastern countries? Or by this or that
language? Maybe a scientist did that following some mathematical tradition
I don't know? Is it to have numbers in an easier way to read? Or is it
simply to make our life more complicated and error prone? Probably there is
not a single explanation, but many. I know there are geodetists in this
group with much more experience and knowledge than me.

About local conventions, as I say later in the mastodon thread, local usage
is not always following the axis order.
For instance, in USA almost every surveyor uses PNEZ order for GCPs (point
id, northing, easting, elevation), but all the official CRSs in USA are
Easting-Northing.
Similarly in Argentina, the official projected CRS is Northing-Easting, but
some (many?) surveyors use Easting-Northing.

About following the same criterion as in Latitude-Longitude, it is an
option. But for me it is just a guess. I do not have any data. And
geographic coordinates were not always mentioned in that order. I just
learned reading Snyder that Mercator wrote in 1569 "... quam secundum
longitudinem latitudinemque debitam..."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_1569_world_map#legend3 (I don't
speak Latin. Maybe the order is reversed due to any strange grammar rule).

Cheers.
Javier.


On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 12:06, Martin Desruisseaux via PROJ <
proj at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:

> Le 2024-05-01 à 11 h 42, Javier Jimenez Shaw via PROJ a écrit :
>
> > Question:
> > Do you know why some **projected** coordinate reference systems use
> > axis order Northing-Easting?
> > Is that a historical reason?
>
> If I remember correctly, Roger Lott from EPSG told me that it was
> reflecting the local convention of the country that defined the
> projected CRS. The abbreviation as well, even if "X" is sometime used
> for Northing (for example), it, this is because the country that defined
> the projected CRS does that way.
>
> In some way, the EPSG database can be seen as not only a database of CRS
> and coordinate transformations relating them, but also a database of the
> local conventions for each country. In some way, the CRS contains
> localization data.
>
>      Martin
>
>
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