[Qgis-user] English only list or Main list?

Fri Oct 19 10:51:41 PDT 2018

I suggest the solution of if you are having trouble understanding someone
do to a language barrier just say so and/or ask for help. The people here,
for the most part, are friendly and understanding. I cannot imagine someone
not clarifying a communication, or parts there of, for someone like me, who
only speaks a single language. I use google translate very often to
translate plugin directions and documentation, and if that doesn't work I
can ask the list for help.
That is how I see it anyway

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:06 PM Alex M <tech_dev at wildintellect.com> wrote:

> Nicolas,
>
> I think you raise a valid points, and that the end of the day we need to
> be as welcoming as possible to the entire community. As a reminder for
> some https://www.osgeo.org/code_of_conduct/
>
> The question is how do we best address the issue? The list of alternate
> language lists is good but not a complete solution. We should absolutely
> offer those when responding to a non-english post, and perhaps an
> explanation that English is the most common language on the list because
> it's comprehended by the most subscribers, so it is most likely to get
> you the most help. A lot of assumptions in that.
>
> As a native English speaker, I actually do attempt to figure out the
> posts in other languages I have some familiarity with, and try to reply
> with a poorly translated response & the english response, along with a
> link to a language specific list if I know one as an alternative.
>
> Sounds like we do need to fix the website to better direct people to
> other language lists if they prefer.
>
> Any else have suggestions on how to improve this?
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
>
> On 10/19/18 08:54, Nicolas Cadieux wrote:
> > Hi Jürgen,
> >
> > You are not offended because you have probably never been repeatedly
> > told not to speak German in Germany.  For people who do not live in a
> > country where this is often the case, I understand they cannot relate to
> > what I am stating.  My rant is culturally - country specific and
> > perhaps, not appropriate for this forum.  I acknowledge this but I am
> > tying to make people aware of a situation that can really tick people
> off.
> >
> > I understand this list is primarily used by people who understand
> > english and that this facilitates communication.  I usually publish in
> > English, or write on this list in English for this very same reason.   I
> > agree that pointing people to language specific list can help those who
> > have a poor understanding, or no understanding of English.  I have done
> > that in the past and have also translated messages from French or
> > Spanish to English when I see unilingual posts, even when I don't know
> > the answers to the questions. This way they can still get helped and
> > others can benefit from the post as you point out. Unfortunately, the
> > other lists that I have visited are not as dynamic as this one... but
> > that's another story.
> >
> > You don't get my last point because, in your case (and in the case of
> > most developers) you have _chosen_ to communicate in English for all the
> > good reasons and are not regularly mocked at when using your mother
> > language in public.  You are not from a country where you are expected
> > to speak in English and to make that effort while anglophones (in my
> > case) are not making any efforts to communicate with you in French.
> > While this is thankfully changing in Canada as more and more anglophones
> > learn French and make the efforts (and are actually starting to realize
> > the importance of learning more than just one language), this is not the
> > case in other countries like the US where Spanish speaking people are
> > often the target of outright racism and regularly told "this is an
> > English speaking country".
> >
> > I too appreciate the use of English in this list, specially when the
> > writer is German, Austrian or from Iceland because Google translation
> > just does not cut it when talking in technical terms. I am simply
> > stating that this is a courtesy to be appreciated and not to be taken
> > for granted.  While Europeans regularly speak many languages, this is a
> > richness not appreciated in many parts of North America.
> >
> > Yours truly,
> >
> > Nicolas Cadieux
> >
> >
> > On 2018-10-19 10:22 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
> >> Hi Nicolas,
> >>
> >> On Fri, 19. Oct 2018 at 09:07:36 -0400, Nicolas Cadieux wrote:
> >>> This is a public rant.  I find it extremely offensive to read
> >>> comments like
> >>> “this is the English list” to people who write to this list in any
> other
> >>> language than English.
> >> I don't.  This is the main user list and it's in English - because
> >> that's the
> >> language everyone here understands - if you don't understand English,
> >> there's
> >> not much point subscribing in the first place.
> >>
> >> Using a language other than that excludes the majority of the
> >> subscribers from
> >> benefiting from what is being said and from contributing to the
> >> discussion.
> >>
> >> And I don't find a response that clarifies this and also points to a
> >> better
> >> suited list offensive either.  Maybe even with a English translation
> >> if the
> >> original posting seems relevant to all.
> >
> >>> If you disagree, please note that the QGIS site refers to this list
> >>> as the
> >>> “The MAIN list for user questions: used for discussion of QGIS in
> >>> general, as
> >>> well as specific questions regarding its installation and use.”  The
> >>> MAIN
> >>> list... not the ENGLISH list. This message is also repeated in other
> >>> languages as can be seen here.
> >>> https://www.qgis.org/fr/site/getinvolved/mailinglists.html#
> >>> https://www.qgis.org/es/site/getinvolved/mailinglists.html#
> >> Hm, that might be a translation issue.  We used to point to local
> >> lists there
> >> (eg. fossgis-talk-liste at fossgis.de for German) - but that's apparently
> >> meanwhile gone.If you are still offended, please keep in mind that
> >> QGIS is primarily, to my
> >> knowledge, a European effort made by people who have German,
> >> Austrio-German,
> >> Spanish, French, Italian and other as their first language and that
> >> they are
> >> developing in English, their second, third or forth language.  You
> >> should be
> >> grateful for their efforts to reach out the international community in a
> >> language spoken a cross the world.
> >> I don't get that point.   Developer's post in English here.
> >> Developer's - at
> >> least I do - also prefer others to post in English here.  And if
> somebody
> >> posted in German, I'd probably point the person off-list to the above
> >> list.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jürgen
> >>
> >>
> >>
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