[Qgis-user] English only list or Main list?

Fri Oct 19 10:54:15 PDT 2018

Don't get me wrong I understand how this can be offensive and/or
frustrating for both sides; but I if you just be patient and work through
the communication barrier more problems will be solved.
Ok, now I am done...

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM Tyler Veinot <tylerkveinot at gmail.com> wrote:

> I suggest the solution of if you are having trouble understanding someone
> do to a language barrier just say so and/or ask for help. The people here,
> for the most part, are friendly and understanding. I cannot imagine someone
> not clarifying a communication, or parts there of, for someone like me, who
> only speaks a single language. I use google translate very often to
> translate plugin directions and documentation, and if that doesn't work I
> can ask the list for help.
> That is how I see it anyway
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:06 PM Alex M <tech_dev at wildintellect.com> wrote:
>
>> Nicolas,
>>
>> I think you raise a valid points, and that the end of the day we need to
>> be as welcoming as possible to the entire community. As a reminder for
>> some https://www.osgeo.org/code_of_conduct/
>>
>> The question is how do we best address the issue? The list of alternate
>> language lists is good but not a complete solution. We should absolutely
>> offer those when responding to a non-english post, and perhaps an
>> explanation that English is the most common language on the list because
>> it's comprehended by the most subscribers, so it is most likely to get
>> you the most help. A lot of assumptions in that.
>>
>> As a native English speaker, I actually do attempt to figure out the
>> posts in other languages I have some familiarity with, and try to reply
>> with a poorly translated response & the english response, along with a
>> link to a language specific list if I know one as an alternative.
>>
>> Sounds like we do need to fix the website to better direct people to
>> other language lists if they prefer.
>>
>> Any else have suggestions on how to improve this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 10/19/18 08:54, Nicolas Cadieux wrote:
>> > Hi Jürgen,
>> >
>> > You are not offended because you have probably never been repeatedly
>> > told not to speak German in Germany.  For people who do not live in a
>> > country where this is often the case, I understand they cannot relate to
>> > what I am stating.  My rant is culturally - country specific and
>> > perhaps, not appropriate for this forum.  I acknowledge this but I am
>> > tying to make people aware of a situation that can really tick people
>> off.
>> >
>> > I understand this list is primarily used by people who understand
>> > english and that this facilitates communication.  I usually publish in
>> > English, or write on this list in English for this very same reason.   I
>> > agree that pointing people to language specific list can help those who
>> > have a poor understanding, or no understanding of English.  I have done
>> > that in the past and have also translated messages from French or
>> > Spanish to English when I see unilingual posts, even when I don't know
>> > the answers to the questions. This way they can still get helped and
>> > others can benefit from the post as you point out. Unfortunately, the
>> > other lists that I have visited are not as dynamic as this one... but
>> > that's another story.
>> >
>> > You don't get my last point because, in your case (and in the case of
>> > most developers) you have _chosen_ to communicate in English for all the
>> > good reasons and are not regularly mocked at when using your mother
>> > language in public.  You are not from a country where you are expected
>> > to speak in English and to make that effort while anglophones (in my
>> > case) are not making any efforts to communicate with you in French.
>> > While this is thankfully changing in Canada as more and more anglophones
>> > learn French and make the efforts (and are actually starting to realize
>> > the importance of learning more than just one language), this is not the
>> > case in other countries like the US where Spanish speaking people are
>> > often the target of outright racism and regularly told "this is an
>> > English speaking country".
>> >
>> > I too appreciate the use of English in this list, specially when the
>> > writer is German, Austrian or from Iceland because Google translation
>> > just does not cut it when talking in technical terms. I am simply
>> > stating that this is a courtesy to be appreciated and not to be taken
>> > for granted.  While Europeans regularly speak many languages, this is a
>> > richness not appreciated in many parts of North America.
>> >
>> > Yours truly,
>> >
>> > Nicolas Cadieux
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2018-10-19 10:22 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
>> >> Hi Nicolas,
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 19. Oct 2018 at 09:07:36 -0400, Nicolas Cadieux wrote:
>> >>> This is a public rant.  I find it extremely offensive to read
>> >>> comments like
>> >>> “this is the English list” to people who write to this list in any
>> other
>> >>> language than English.
>> >> I don't.  This is the main user list and it's in English - because
>> >> that's the
>> >> language everyone here understands - if you don't understand English,
>> >> there's
>> >> not much point subscribing in the first place.
>> >>
>> >> Using a language other than that excludes the majority of the
>> >> subscribers from
>> >> benefiting from what is being said and from contributing to the
>> >> discussion.
>> >>
>> >> And I don't find a response that clarifies this and also points to a
>> >> better
>> >> suited list offensive either.  Maybe even with a English translation
>> >> if the
>> >> original posting seems relevant to all.
>> >
>> >>> If you disagree, please note that the QGIS site refers to this list
>> >>> as the
>> >>> “The MAIN list for user questions: used for discussion of QGIS in
>> >>> general, as
>> >>> well as specific questions regarding its installation and use.”  The
>> >>> MAIN
>> >>> list... not the ENGLISH list. This message is also repeated in other
>> >>> languages as can be seen here.
>> >>> https://www.qgis.org/fr/site/getinvolved/mailinglists.html#
>> >>> https://www.qgis.org/es/site/getinvolved/mailinglists.html#
>> >> Hm, that might be a translation issue.  We used to point to local
>> >> lists there
>> >> (eg. fossgis-talk-liste at fossgis.de for German) - but that's apparently
>> >> meanwhile gone.If you are still offended, please keep in mind that
>> >> QGIS is primarily, to my
>> >> knowledge, a European effort made by people who have German,
>> >> Austrio-German,
>> >> Spanish, French, Italian and other as their first language and that
>> >> they are
>> >> developing in English, their second, third or forth language.  You
>> >> should be
>> >> grateful for their efforts to reach out the international community in
>> a
>> >> language spoken a cross the world.
>> >> I don't get that point.   Developer's post in English here.
>> >> Developer's - at
>> >> least I do - also prefer others to post in English here.  And if
>> somebody
>> >> posted in German, I'd probably point the person off-list to the above
>> >> list.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jürgen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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