[Qgis-user] [EXTERNAL] Re: Geopackage slow on NAS if not read-only

Thu Mar 16 07:38:22 PDT 2023

Hi Árni,

You can try setting the SQLITE_USE_OGR_VFS=YES configuration option, as
mentioned at https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/issues/27899.
Be sure to read the implications of changing the default (NO) option:
https://gdal.org/drivers/vector/sqlite.html#configuration-options
You can change the config option in a environment variable or a config
file: https://gdal.org/user/configoptions.html#configuration-options

Regards,
Gabriel

El jue, 16 mar 2023 a la(s) 11:08, Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User (
qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org) escribió:

> I do appreciate the good advice to use DBMS, I am doing that too and
> understand the advantages. I would never consider using a geopackage if I
> thought that multiple people would want to edit them at the same time. But
> that is not the case and that is not my problem. Sometimes, I just want to
> keep geodata in a file on a network share and run the risk (in my case
> insignificant) that the file will be corrupted by multi user access. This I
> can do with shapefiles, but unlike the shapefiles, I have to set the
> read-only flag on the geopackages stored on the network to get decent
> rendering speed, without ever wanting to edit the files. I think wanting to
> use file based storage for geodata in a networked environment is not
> unreasonable, even if there is some danger of corruption. All file based
> formats are probably subject to that risk, but I repeat, that issue is not
> what I am talking about, just the rendering speed of data in a geopackage
> that is not set to read-only.
> I suspect that there is no solution and that I will just have to live with
> this - as I have done for years. It is just a bit annoying. And I am
> surprised how little it is discussed.
>
> Árni
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 13:46, Sadowski Jarosław via QGIS-User <
> qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>> Don’t use file formats to edit by multiple users. I was occurring some
>> critical problems, as for example disappearing objects from database or
>> LOOOOONG read for first time ☹
>>
>>
>>
>> Use PostgreSQL or other solutions like:
>>
>> Mergin Maps: Collect, Store and Analyze your Geo-Data Easily
>> <https://merginmaps.com/>
>>
>> GIS Support » GIS.Box (gis--support-pl.translate.goog)
>> <https://gis--support-pl.translate.goog/gis-box/?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pl&_x_tr_pto=wapp>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *_________________________________*
>>
>> *Jarosław Sadowski*
>> Kierownik Zespołu ds. Ochrony Środowiska | *Biuro Strategii i
>> Planowania, Projektowania i Inżynierii Podprogramu Kolejowego*
>> *Environmental Protection Team Leader **| Railway Subprogramme Strategy
>> & Planning, Design & Engineering Department*
>> e: jaroslaw.sadowski at cpk.pl
>> m: +48 532 720 230
>>
>> *From:* QGIS-User <qgis-user-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> *On Behalf Of *Bo
>> Victor Thomsen via QGIS-User
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:35 PM
>> *To:* qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Qgis-user] [EXTERNAL] Re: Geopackage slow on NAS if not
>> read-only
>>
>>
>>
>> UWAGA: Ta wiadomość pochodzi spoza CPK Sp. z o.o. Proszę pomóż zadbać o
>> bezpieczeństwo naszej organizacji. Zastanów się, zanim otworzysz link lub
>> załącznik.
>>
>>
>>
>> When any user on your network access the geopackage layer and (maybe
>> unnecessarily) puts the layer in edit mode, there will be created 2 extra
>> files in the same directory as the gpkg file resides in. And QGIS behaves
>> different regarding *both* read and write operations when these file are
>> present. This is probably the explanation of the longer reading times, even
>> if nobody actually is editing the layer. When the user stops the editing
>> mode for the layer, the 2 files disappear.
>>
>> You can check if this is the explanation:
>>
>>    1. Open the gpkg layer in read mode on one computer, check the access
>>    speed of the same layer on *another* computer.
>>    2. Set the layer in edit mode on the first computer, check the access
>>    speed to the layer on the second computer
>>    3. Revert the edit mode on the first computer, check the access speed
>>    to the layer on the second computer.
>>
>> I am guessing, that situations 1 and 3 are fast, while situation 2 is
>> slow.
>>
>> First of all: Never, ever try to implement some kind of multi-user
>> editing on a file based format, where the file resides on a networked
>> drive. It will never, ever work reliably. At some point 2 users will try to
>> edit the same layer at the same time and it will go kaboom (I can read from
>> your mails that you are aware about this). This goes for - probably - every
>> file based format on a network drive.
>>
>> Secondly: What about making the gpkg file read-only at the network share
>> level for most of the users. And only granting write access to the gpkg
>> file for certain users that are instructed in *not* setting the layer in
>> edit mode unless it's strictly necessary ?
>>
>> The best solution: Install Postgres/PostGIS on your NAS
>>
>> Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Bo Victor Thomsen
>>
>> Den 16-03-2023 kl. 13:49 skrev Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User:
>>
>> Thank you for the various responses.
>>
>> Let me be clear that what I am griping about is not the locking aspect
>> that would allow multiple users to edit without conflict. I fully
>> understand that the geopackage is not safe for that, nor is the shapefile
>> and perhaps also the file geodatabase. In my case, the likelihood of two
>> people wanting to edit the same geopackage is negligible, so I take my
>> chances. My only gripe is the rendering speed of larger geopackages on a
>> shared network, if they are not set specifically to read-only. That is not
>> a problem with the shapefile and I think probably not with a file
>> geodatabase. I am a long time user of geopackages in a networked
>> environment and I will continue to use them - they are great - there is
>> just this problem of rendering speed over a network.
>>
>>
>>
>> Árni
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 12:33, Sebastian Gutwein <bas at rdgland.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is all beyond my expertise but I have also struggled with the
>> effective use of gpkg’s. In my case over google drive.
>>
>> Here is what SQLite (the underlying software for gpkgs) says about using
>> a SQLite database on a network:
>>
>> https://www.sqlite.org/useovernet.html
>> <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sqlite.org%2Fuseovernet.html&data=05%7C01%7Cjaroslaw.sadowski%40cpk.pl%7Cd767a39352fb48744fbc08db26235086%7Cfa798250ca0b4a1bb47381cff4a1752b%7C1%7C0%7C638145705353555137%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gF5jBExKrp2Hlks%2FQEHefiiG0FJFhqAG8fJ0VxBs4Kc%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope that someday someone implements a system that allows this to work
>> efficiently as gpkgs are better in many respects than shapefiles. Perhaps
>> Geodiff could be part of that solution.
>>
>> https://github.com/MerginMaps/geodiff
>> <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMerginMaps%2Fgeodiff&data=05%7C01%7Cjaroslaw.sadowski%40cpk.pl%7Cd767a39352fb48744fbc08db26235086%7Cfa798250ca0b4a1bb47381cff4a1752b%7C1%7C0%7C638145705353555137%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bcngOeZeGv1iT%2BEEOV2Vtf3%2FZRXxYLBvgRuX0SMFOdI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 8:04 AM Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User <
>> qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jorge
>>
>> I understand what you are pointing at and I use databases such as
>> Postgres/PostGIS also with good results. The thing is that working with
>> data in files sometimes has advantages and that is certainly how shapefiles
>> have been used. The geopackage has been suggested as a replacement for the
>> shapefile in the context of regular QGIS usage without any caveat saying
>> that geopackages only replace the storage and transfer role of shapefiles
>> and that geopackages should not be used for editing in a shared
>> environment, as is perfectly possible with shapefiles and widely practiced.
>> Not all users have access to database systems such as Postgres. I'm just
>> looking for some clarity on best practices for the common scenario of
>> working with QGIS using file based data in a network environment.
>>
>>
>>
>> Árni
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 11:47, Jorge Gustavo Rocha via QGIS-User <
>> qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For data storage and manipulation databases are suitable. Files are not.
>>
>> Geopackages are wonderful to transfer data between systems or to archive
>> an entire project (snapshot of data, styles and the project itself).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>> On 16/03/23 11:30, Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Jarosław. Isn't it strange that this was discussed 5 years ago
>> and SMB file sharing is very common? Would a linux based NAS be able to use
>> another protocol? What are my options for file based data sharing in QGIS?
>> Abandoning geopackages is not a realistic option for me, but I could get a
>> different kind of NAS unit, if that helps, what kind then? What amazes me
>> is how little I see this discussed. There was a message in this thread this
>> morning from Thomas Struller, but I am not sure it is about the same root
>> problem, maybe Thomas can elaborate.
>>
>> Should this perhaps be discussed in another forum, closer to the
>> development of geopackage/sqlite?
>>
>>
>>
>> Árni Geirsson
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 09:52, Sadowski Jarosław <jaroslaw.sadowski at cpk.pl>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Long story short: gpkg is bad idea for network drives as SMB/NAS etc
>>
>>
>>
>> Sources:
>> Write-Ahead Logging (sqlite.org)
>> <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sqlite.org%2Fwal.html%23advantages&data=05%7C01%7Cjaroslaw.sadowski%40cpk.pl%7Cd767a39352fb48744fbc08db26235086%7Cfa798250ca0b4a1bb47381cff4a1752b%7C1%7C0%7C638145705353555137%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vrWFTUkAozdYRmNNtVRiMz5YiGTzAso2UQDgEzkzr6w%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> writing gpkg and sqlite on samba shares fails · Issue #628 · r-spatial/sf
>> · GitHub
>> <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fr-spatial%2Fsf%2Fissues%2F628&data=05%7C01%7Cjaroslaw.sadowski%40cpk.pl%7Cd767a39352fb48744fbc08db26235086%7Cfa798250ca0b4a1bb47381cff4a1752b%7C1%7C0%7C638145705353555137%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aC2PYy3vqIWzu3XXWMjhggZawmN9dXQcunqObizOQNY%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *_________________________________*
>>
>> *Jarosław Sadowski*
>> Kierownik Zespołu ds. Ochrony Środowiska | *Biuro Strategii i
>> Planowania, Projektowania i Inżynierii Podprogramu Kolejowego*
>> *Environmental Protection Team Leader | Railway Subprogramme Strategy &
>> Planning, Design & Engineering Department*
>> e: jaroslaw.sadowski at cpk.pl
>> m: +48 532 720 230
>>
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>> *From:* QGIS-User <qgis-user-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> *On Behalf Of *Árni
>> Geirsson via QGIS-User
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 16, 2023 10:18 AM
>> *To:* jhubbslist at att.net
>> *Cc:* qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Qgis-user] Geopackage slow on NAS if not
>> read-only
>>
>>
>>
>> UWAGA: Ta wiadomość pochodzi spoza CPK Sp. z o.o. Proszę pomóż zadbać o
>> bezpieczeństwo naszej organizacji. Zastanów się, zanim otworzysz link
>> lub załącznik.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, as far as I know, the NAS unit uses SMB as the file sharing
>> protocol. I used another NAS from QNAP before this one, also using SMB and
>> with the same problem. I thought pretty much all of the Linux based NAS
>> units were using SMB and if that is the problem, it should be widespread,
>> but I don't see any signs of that. Is SMB a problem for geopackage?
>>
>> I did a quick test in QGIS: A dataset of 178.000 line features is
>> rendered in about 1 second from a read only geopackage. When I remove the
>> read only flag, it is rendered in about 5 seconds.
>>
>> If I store the geopackage on the local hard drive, the problem
>> disappears, read-write or read-only does not matter.
>>
>> I have had suspicions about SMB being part of the problem but I don't
>> know enough about file access deep down in the operating system to
>> understand it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Árni Geirsson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 01:45, jhubbslist--- via QGIS-User <
>> qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>> Árni -
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you using SMB/CIFS to access this NAS, and are you using wifi or
>> Ethernet to connect to it?
>>
>>
>>
>> - Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/15/23 3:30 PM, Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User wrote:
>>
>> Hello all QGIS and geopackage users.
>>
>> I store my geopackages on a Synology RackStation NAS unit, like all other
>> documents that are kept on a shared drive in the office. For larger
>> datasets, the rendering is very slow, unless I open the properties dialog
>> for the file in Windows and check the read only box. After that, the
>> features are rendered blazingly fast. Nothing else is changed to see the
>> dramatic difference in the rendering speed. Luckily, I don't need to edit
>> many of the larger datasets, such as road networks and elevation contours
>> and the geopackage can be kept read only. Shapefiles are not affected.
>>
>> What explains this and does anyone know how to solve the problem?
>>
>> Do other users experience this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Árni Geirsson
>>
>>
>>
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