[OSGeo-Discuss] Mailing lists to discourse migration

Cannata Massimiliano Massimiliano.Cannata at supsi.ch
Fri Dec 29 03:43:03 PST 2023 

Dear all,
My 2cents...

Discourse seems an appealing solution for query and answer but I agree with Bruce that before we move we should have a nice open discussion, since it's not gonna be the magic stick...
I've seen the platform used at some universities and seeing last post dated one year ago didn't attract people to use it..

I also believe we have a low engagement rate in the latest year and deep open reflections should be done in my opinion to revamp it... Since our community have been highly relevant and has more to say in my opinion..


Il 28 dic 2023 23:53, Bruce Bannerman via Discuss <discuss at lists.osgeo.org> ha scritto:
Apart from these few emails telling me that a move to something called Discourse is happening, I have not seen any discussion on our lists explaining the pros and cons of such a move.

I find this lack of community engagement on this issue to be troubling.

This does not seem to be a very open source community way of making such a significant move.

Personally, what we have now has been working nicely for me for close on 20 years.

The lists have been very quiet for quite a while now, but that is a community engagement issue. It is not something that technology will magically fix.

It seems to me that we have a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 29 Dec 2023, at 05:15, Jody Garnett via Discuss <discuss at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:


Reading online it appears there is:

1. A mailing list mode so notifications are sent out each time a post is made (this is a user preference)

2. A reply via email mode

So experimentation is needed.

Reference:
-
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008/8
-
https://meta.discourse.org/t/set-up-reply-by-email-with-pop3-polling/14003


--
Jody Garnett


On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 10:09 AM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
I think we need someone who understand how discourse works to make an informed decision.

If the forum fills up with questions; and the developers are minding the email list - it will not work out so well :) At least as described.
--
Jody Garnett


On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 6:58 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky at erosion.dev<mailto:vicky at erosion.dev>> wrote:


On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 11:43 AM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
Q: So if a mailing list is mirrored to discourse it operates similar to nabble used to? Is searchable etc …

I don't know the details of how discourse works,

But replies done via discourse are not sent to mailing list subscribers - so it is one way communication.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/create-a-read-only-mailing-list-mirror/77990

And the thinking here is that discourse is easier for people who want to ask a specific question without subscribing to a mailing list (and getting yet more email).
Yes, so you can have the mirror in one category and another catergory for Q&A
--
Jody Garnett


On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 9:07 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky at erosion.dev<mailto:vicky at erosion.dev>> wrote:
Hi Jody

We are offering options

Before:
Use mailing list

After:
* Use mailing list and see the archives only on https://lists.osgeo.org/
* Use mailing list and see the archives also on discourse
* Use discourse without a mailing list


This are the possibilities regarding migration of mailing list
* Have the mailing list migrated completely to discourse example [1]  (Use discourse without a mailing list, but get previous conversations from mailing list)
* Have a mirror of the mailing in discourse example [2] (Use mailing list and see the archives also on discourse)
* Have a category on discourse and not have a mailing list example [3] was created by Jody (Use discourse without a mailing list)
* Opt to not migrate or mirror the mailing list example [4] (Use mailing list and see the archives only on https://lists.osgeo.org/)

[1] https://discourse.osgeo.org/c/qgis/qgis-fr-user/5
[2] https://discourse.osgeo.org/c/sac-global-category/sac/13
[3] https://discourse.osgeo.org/t/about-the-osgeo-site-feedback-category/1
[4] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/foss4g2008loc/

Regards
Vicky

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 10:16 AM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
I was lurking in the sys admin chat as I was working on the osgeo sign up form. Mailing lists are not going away, but I am unclear at what is being offered.
--
Jody Garnett


On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 8:01 AM Eli Adam <eadam at co.lincoln.or.us<mailto:eadam at co.lincoln.or.us>> wrote:
Hi,

I'm also unclear on what is going on.  It looks like discourse options are being added.  This raises questions about mailing lists.  1. Are mailing lists going away?  2. Can projects choose to keep just the mailing list and not add dicourse?

Thanks, Eli
________________________________
From: Discuss <discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>> on behalf of Vicky Vergara via Discuss <discuss at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2023 9:52 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mailing lists to discourse migration

Hi Jody,

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 9:31 PM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
Vicky,

Is there any more information on what is being offered here?

I have not used discourse very much. What do you mean by having a category Can you be more clear about migrate and mirror.

Category, is like the one you created about the discourse site feedback.
Mirror, is a category that mirrors the mailing list, so the mails received on the mailing list are also shown on discourse.
If you "reply" to those mails using discourse, they will not be shown on the mailing list, as the mirror does not send mails to the mailing list.
The reply that will be shown is the one done using mail.


Will the existing list of email subscribers be part of migrating a mailing list

When migrating subscribers are also migrated and are "staged users", and they can log in using ldap, or github account.
If the mail of their log in matches, the staged users get assigned to the person that logged in.

Regards
Vicky

--
Jody Garnett


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 1:07 PM Vicky Vergara via Discuss <discuss at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:
Hello all

We are ready to migrate mailing lists to discourse,
* Have the mailing list migrated completely to discourse
* Have a mirror of the mailing in discourse
* Have a category on discourse and not have a mailing list
* Opt to not migrate or mirror the mailing list

A comprehensive list of mailing lists can be found here (not including private mailing lists):
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo

You need to open a ticket to have the work done.
Follow the ticket examples below for the first 3 cases

Regards
Vicky Vergara

Example: Have the mailing list migrated completely to discourse:

Ticket: https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/3064 (has link to ticket 3063)
+
Comment in Ticket: https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/3063

Created the following discourse category
https://discourse.osgeo.org/c/qgis/qgis-fr-user/5
And the archives of the mailing list will not be removed:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-fr-user/
Migration has finished so any new message to the list will not be received on discourse, but the list will be disabled for before the end of january.
Mail on discourse: qgis-fr-user/@discourse.osgeo.org<http://discourse.osgeo.org>

Example: Have a mirror of the mailing in discourse
Ticket: https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/3062
Created the following discourse category
https://discourse.osgeo.org/c/sac-global-category/sac/13
The mailing list will not be removed, and it is a mirror to the mailing list
emails continue to be sent to sac at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:sac at lists.osgeo.org>
Replies can be done
https://discourse.osgeo.org/t/re-osgeo-3062-import-sac-mailing-list-to-discourse/4747/2?u=cvvergara
But they will no be reflected on the mailing list
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/sac/2023-December/thread.html

Example: of category without mailing list
Ticket: https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/3066
https://discourse.osgeo.org/c/osgeolive/osgeolive-docs/8


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