[QGIS-Developer] On github, gitlab, and imperialist nations screwing us all over...

Paolo Cavallini cavallini at faunalia.it
Thu Aug 1 21:45:06 PDT 2019 

Hi all.
I'm often unhappy when I'm right. Although the practical impact this time is low, I would take this as a clear signal (after the loomio move, and I expect more) that we have to change our strategy, keeping our infrastructure as simple as possible and avoiding wherever possible to rely on proprietary, non free, stuff.
Cheers.

On 1 August 2019 11:32:14 CEST, Andreas Neumann <a.neumann at carto.net> wrote:
>Hi Ian,
>
>Am 01.08.19 um 11:21 schrieb Ian Turton:
>> I would suspect that switching to gitlab would not be sufficient as
>it 
>> is still with in the USA and would be subject to the same 
>> restrictions. Also if self-hosting we will need to make sure it 
>> outside the USA.
>
>Yes - our self-hosted infrastructure is in Germany.
>
>We are aware that gitlab is also hosted in the US.
>
>However, a self-hosted version of gitlab in our current infrastructure 
>adds a significant additional burden. That's why we need to discuss it 
>first, reach consensus and allocate resources for maintenance.
>
>As to China: this is kind of a "black hole" for us. China (and probably
>
>also North Korea) are some of the very few countries where we have 
>almost no feedback on usage, have almost no income of donations and 
>sponsorships, etc. My assumption is that in China they just pirate ESRI
>
>software, or they have some alternative GIS they programmed themselves.
>
>Andreas
>
>>
>> There is also a suggestion that China could be added to the list of 
>> "banned" countries too. 
>>
>https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/chinese-developers-fear-losing-open-source-tech-trade-war/article/3011463  While
>
>> this article suggests that no open source code is affected 
>>
>https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/github-says-chinese-developers-are-safe-export-restrictions/article/3012452
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 09:35, Andreas Neumann <a.neumann at carto.net 
>> <mailto:a.neumann at carto.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>
>>     Thanks for bringing up this discussion.
>>
>>     My personal opinion is that we should be worried by such
>>     development and
>>     should have a plan B for hosting our code.
>>
>>     We certainly want QGIS and its source code to be available world
>>     wide,
>>     not just to parts of the world at the mercy of some governments
>and
>>     corporations.
>>
>>     But the decision to move away from github should be discussed and
>>     voted
>>     on by the core devs and voting members because apparently it has
>a
>>     lot
>>     of implications and a lot of work went into the CI integration
>>     (according to some devs).
>>
>>     We already have 10k € in the 2019 budget for github to gitlab
>>     (hosted or
>>     self hosted?) migration. This money would already be available
>this
>>     year, but first we need to have a plan and the support of the
>>     developer
>>     community to do this step. If this isn't enough, we can have
>>     additional
>>     budget in 2020.
>>
>>     Greetings,
>>
>>     Andreas
>>
>>
>>     Am 01.08.19 um 09:37 schrieb Vincent Picavet (ml):
>>     > Hi Nyall, all,
>>     >
>>     > On 01/08/2019 06:26, Nyall Dawson wrote:
>>     >> Well, I've got to say upfront that we WERE warned about the
>>     dangers of
>>     >> this happening by members of our community, and now the worst
>IS
>>     >> happening and Github has started blocking access to projects
>from
>>     >> certain regions.
>>     >>
>>     >> See https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/86154.html, but long
>story
>>     >> short, GitHub is now blocking users in Crimea, Cuba, Iran,
>>     North Korea
>>     >> and Syria from accessing its services to comply with U.S.
>trade
>>     >> control laws. I'm unsure if we're directly affected yet by
>>     this, but
>>     >> the wording on Github's notice is very vague: " GitHub MAY
>>     allow users
>>     >> in or ordinarily resident in countries and territories subject
>>     to U.S.
>>     >> sanctions to access CERTAIN free GitHub.com services for
>PERSONAL
>>     >> COMMUNICATIONS " (emphasis added by me).
>>     >>
>>     >> What can/should we do in response to this?
>>     > While the impact of this decision is still very minor for us
>>     right now,
>>     > as you say it is a very good illustration on how putting us in
>a
>>     vendor
>>     > lock-in situation is bad.
>>     >
>>     > I would say that it is not too late to re-work on a self-hosted
>>     GitLab
>>     > instance, which would be more future-proof. That would need a
>>     great deal
>>     > of efforts though, and would require specific funding for the
>>     > forthcoming non-funny tasks.
>>     >
>>     > At Oslandia, we would be willing to help, if it is the path
>>     chosen by
>>     > the community.
>>     >
>>     > A Git mirror would be great of course, but does not solve the
>>     full problem.
>>     >
>>     > And personally, this kind of attack against free information
>and
>>     > knowledge is a concern, for sure.
>>     >
>>     > Best regards,
>>     > Vincent
>>     >
>>     >> Note that it ALSO applies to gitlab.com <http://gitlab.com>,
>>     who are also subject to the
>>     >> same trade laws, so moving to gitlab ISN'T a possible solution
>>     (unless
>>     >> we self-host).
>>     >>
>>     >> I think at the least we could/should endorse an official,
>read-only
>>     >> repo mirror which isn't affected by the trade laws, e.g.
>>     >> https://git.osgeo.org/gitea/qgis/QGIS would be a great
>candidate
>>     >> (unless osgeo is also affected by the same ruling, which they
>could
>>     >> easily be, given that they are US based too) . An official
>mirror
>>     >> would at least ensure that users in these regions can access
>the
>>     >> existing source.
>>     >>
>>     >> Does this development concern anyone else?
>>     >>
>>     >> Nyall
>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>     >> QGIS-Developer mailing list
>>     >> QGIS-Developer at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:QGIS-Developer at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     >> List info:
>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>     >> Unsubscribe:
>>     https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>     >>
>>     > _______________________________________________
>>     > QGIS-Developer mailing list
>>     > QGIS-Developer at lists.osgeo.org
>>     <mailto:QGIS-Developer at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     > List info:
>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>     > Unsubscribe:
>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     QGIS-Developer mailing list
>>     QGIS-Developer at lists.osgeo.org
><mailto:QGIS-Developer at lists.osgeo.org>
>>     List info:
>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>     Unsubscribe:
>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Ian Turton

-- 
Sorry for being short
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/attachments/20190802/c5123fba/attachment.html>

More information about the QGIS-Developer mailing list