[QGIS-Developer] On github, gitlab, and imperialist nations screwing us all over...

Thu Aug 1 22:46:08 PDT 2019

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 6:45 AM Paolo Cavallini <cavallini at faunalia.it>
wrote:

> Hi all.
> I'm often unhappy when I'm right. Although the practical impact this time
> is low, I would take this as a clear signal (after the loomio move, and I
> expect more) that we have to change our strategy, keeping our
> infrastructure as simple as possible and avoiding wherever possible to rely
> on proprietary, non free, stuff.
> Cheers.
>

For what it's worth I totally agree with you Paolo.

>
> On 1 August 2019 11:32:14 CEST, Andreas Neumann <a.neumann at carto.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ian,
>> Am 01.08.19 um 11:21 schrieb Ian Turton:
>>
>> I would suspect that switching to gitlab would not be sufficient as it is
>> still with in the USA and would be subject to the same restrictions. Also
>> if self-hosting we will need to make sure it outside the USA.
>>
>> Yes - our self-hosted infrastructure is in Germany.
>>
>> We are aware that gitlab is also hosted in the US.
>>
>> However, a self-hosted version of gitlab in our current infrastructure
>> adds a significant additional burden. That's why we need to discuss it
>> first, reach consensus and allocate resources for maintenance.
>>
>> As to China: this is kind of a "black hole" for us. China (and probably
>> also North Korea) are some of the very few countries where we have almost
>> no feedback on usage, have almost no income of donations and sponsorships,
>> etc. My assumption is that in China they just pirate ESRI software, or they
>> have some alternative GIS they programmed themselves.
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>> There is also a suggestion that China could be added to the list of
>> "banned" countries too.
>> https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/chinese-developers-fear-losing-open-source-tech-trade-war/article/3011463  While
>> this article suggests that no open source code is affected
>> https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/github-says-chinese-developers-are-safe-export-restrictions/article/3012452
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 09:35, Andreas Neumann <a.neumann at carto.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for bringing up this discussion.
>>>
>>> My personal opinion is that we should be worried by such development and
>>> should have a plan B for hosting our code.
>>>
>>> We certainly want QGIS and its source code to be available world wide,
>>> not just to parts of the world at the mercy of some governments and
>>> corporations.
>>>
>>> But the decision to move away from github should be discussed and voted
>>> on by the core devs and voting members because apparently it has a lot
>>> of implications and a lot of work went into the CI integration
>>> (according to some devs).
>>>
>>> We already have 10k € in the 2019 budget for github to gitlab (hosted or
>>> self hosted?) migration. This money would already be available this
>>> year, but first we need to have a plan and the support of the developer
>>> community to do this step. If this isn't enough, we can have additional
>>> budget in 2020.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 01.08.19 um 09:37 schrieb Vincent Picavet (ml):
>>> > Hi Nyall, all,
>>> >
>>> > On 01/08/2019 06:26, Nyall Dawson wrote:
>>> >> Well, I've got to say upfront that we WERE warned about the dangers of
>>> >> this happening by members of our community, and now the worst IS
>>> >> happening and Github has started blocking access to projects from
>>> >> certain regions.
>>> >>
>>> >> See https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/86154.html, but long story
>>> >> short, GitHub is now blocking users in Crimea, Cuba, Iran, North Korea
>>> >> and Syria from accessing its services to comply with U.S. trade
>>> >> control laws. I'm unsure if we're directly affected yet by this, but
>>> >> the wording on Github's notice is very vague: " GitHub MAY allow users
>>> >> in or ordinarily resident in countries and territories subject to U.S.
>>> >> sanctions to access CERTAIN free GitHub.com services for PERSONAL
>>> >> COMMUNICATIONS " (emphasis added by me).
>>> >>
>>> >> What can/should we do in response to this?
>>> > While the impact of this decision is still very minor for us right now,
>>> > as you say it is a very good illustration on how putting us in a vendor
>>> > lock-in situation is bad.
>>> >
>>> > I would say that it is not too late to re-work on a self-hosted GitLab
>>> > instance, which would be more future-proof. That would need a great
>>> deal
>>> > of efforts though, and would require specific funding for the
>>> > forthcoming non-funny tasks.
>>> >
>>> > At Oslandia, we would be willing to help, if it is the path chosen by
>>> > the community.
>>> >
>>> > A Git mirror would be great of course, but does not solve the full
>>> problem.
>>> >
>>> > And personally, this kind of attack against free information and
>>> > knowledge is a concern, for sure.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> > Vincent
>>> >
>>> >> Note that it ALSO applies to gitlab.com, who are also subject to the
>>> >> same trade laws, so moving to gitlab ISN'T a possible solution (unless
>>> >> we self-host).
>>> >>
>>> >> I think at the least we could/should endorse an official, read-only
>>> >> repo mirror which isn't affected by the trade laws, e.g.
>>> >> https://git.osgeo.org/gitea/qgis/QGIS would be a great candidate
>>> >> (unless osgeo is also affected by the same ruling, which they could
>>> >> easily be, given that they are US based too) . An official mirror
>>> >> would at least ensure that users in these regions can access the
>>> >> existing source.
>>> >>
>>> >> Does this development concern anyone else?
>>> >>
>>> >> Nyall
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian Turton
>>
>>
> --
> Sorry for being short
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-- 
Alessandro Pasotti
w3:   www.itopen.it
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