[Board] Fwd: How to retire membership status?

Sun Dec 9 12:46:48 PST 2018

Hello all

I feel the need to explain why I moved Sara's name to retired section of
charter members page.

>From my point of view, I am writing my thought process.

*First mail thread*
Her original question:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037553.html
As you can see originally she did not mention that she wanted to retire.
She just asked for the procedure for doing so.
Why did no one answer the question? because there is no procedure for
asking for retirement.

All subsequent reply's just assumed that she wanted to retire.

First response:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037554.html
asks for reconsideration, but accepts the decision.

Second response:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037561.html
I know how the written word can be so hurtful these days

The assumption of retirement, I think, is confirmed with her response
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037563.html
But also the empathy from the above comment opened the door more details
about her need to leave.

it's no longer wanting to be
affiliated with a community whose members make open threats to my
employment.

>From Cameron response
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037566.html
people leave either silently (as is usually the case)

For me, if this is true, then its worries me, who silently has retired?

Also
or publicly as you have suggested here

So, because now her desire for retirement is officially public and her
reason is also public
the door was open for the why's

In
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037567.html

She says:

I was originally trying to avoid any semblance of "stirring up trouble",
but I think I messed up and need to be clearer.

I think she didn't mess up, she made a question, that had no answer.
The rest of us started the "stirring up trouble" by indirectly asking the
whys

Unfortunately this particular section shows that she feels attacked:

>* We should do our best to ensure opinions are stated respectfully, and
*encourage forgiveness when we slip up and get a bit passionate.

I'm not sure who you are referring to with this, but please do let me know
if you mean me.

She had no public answer to that comment, unless this is considered to
be the answer to that comment:

https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2018-June/037573.html

Could each of us please be a bit more measured and forgiving when
responding. It seems a few words have been selected which caused more
offense than intended.

The rest of the thread is about CoC, and Sara's question was never answered,
As I was not part of CRO and no one from board or from CRO said explicitly
that her resignation (I would used this term) was accepted I could
not do anything at that time.

*Second mail thread*

This other e-mail thread was different:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2018-December/011813.html

She is asking to be retired, and not only that, she is asking ***me*
** explicitly to do it.

Vicky - similarly, I understand you have the ability to edit the web
content at www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/. If that's not correct
either, please feel free to forward as needed.

As being part of CRO this year, I thought I could do it. No questions
asked from my part.
I did it without asking the other CRO members. I only informed them of
my actions.

By the way, I just googled Returning Officer, and now I am sure that
the idea I had in my mind is wrong.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/returning%20officer
But I am not taking it back.

Continuing with the thought process, I don't feel I have the right to
ask the why's.

The answers could be tough and personal:

What if ...

Instead of Sara, it was me asking, here are some possible answers that
you could have received

- My brother fell down 400mts down the cliff then ...

- My other brother had a head on collision then ...

- A stingray stung my father then ...

- My smallest brother was almost beheaded then ...

- My 9 y.o. son fell down head first from a first floor then ...

- My 11 y.o. son crashed a tractor to a car, a tree and almost an
electricity pole then ..

- This is hypothetical: Fortunately Vicky is still around after
http://irclogs.geoapt.com/osgeolive/%23osgeolive.2017-09-19.log but
then ... signed (husband)

In other instances, they might be Job related, I think of possible reasons:

- I am starting a new Job that forbids me to do open source then ...
- The company where I work feels that my participation is diminishing
my efficiency then ...
- The company where I work feels that my participation is too open then ...

In all those cases the Job is threatened and we can not do nothing. so why ask?

if the reason is an OSGeo community related reason
Who has the right to ask?:  A Board member? A CRO member? A CoC
committee member? Any charter member? Any member?

What is the best way to ask? Using public list? Using private e-mail?
Video conference?
Remember:
I know how the written word can be so hurtful these days

I've been looking around to find policies that answer the questions above.
Haven't found anything yet.

Therefore this could happen:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2018-December/011814.html

A charter member asked privately but

*I'm emailing privately, but please do reply publicly if you feel you wish **to.
*...
*If you are answering** publicly, I suggest not naming specific people.*

Why ask again?, wasn't the first mail thread enough explanation?

What would have happened if she answers privately? would the board be
informed?, the CoC committee being informed? Which other committee
needs to be informed?

This time was Cameron, long time charter member and that knows more
about procedures than me.

But what if ...
It was "X", just for curiosity
or  It was "Y"  maybe to use the information later for an article or
blog about OSGeo problems?
or it was "Z" maybe because the answer was private, with names and
that in the future could be used to harm more Sara's Job

*Some conclusions*

In general, see through those mailing threads that charter members
express their concerns openly and right away.
We are not here only for voting.
Our participation goes beyond that.

Some charter members (or simply members) are new, and even me, I feel
I am still in the learning stage.
We are curious and we ask questions.
If there is an answer, just answer, don't assume intentions.
If there is no answer, lets look/work for the answer, and again don't
assume intentions.

If there is a code of conduct problem, and the problem is mailed to
CoC mailing lists, because of the list visibility, everything would be
out in the open.
The current mailing list list could be used only for discussion of the
CoC contents & procedures but not for publishing a problem.

In our ignorance as new charter members, we ask in discuss, the
problems then arise in discuss,
everything is public, and written word can not be taken back.

Have a separate private CoC mailing list to where problems are
forwarded and only CoC committee members have access to.
Probably there is but as I am not part of CoC, I don't know, therefore
If I see a problem I would not know where to send it.

*My Justification*

>From this I felt I need to justify my self

I think that this request of withdraw together with the public accuses it

expresses cannot be simply resolved with a wiki page modification.

I agree with that, but putting myself on Sara's shoes, its important for
her to have
her name in the retired section as **her Job is on the line**.

Now I think:
I would have done it back then and have myself deal with
dealing the problem because of doing it in OSGeo,
but don't have her job on the line for 5 months waiting for an answer.

I am really really sorry that having being able to do it in July, I didn't
do it,
just because I thought it was not my call.

I hope in the future when someone has the:
- job on the line for whatever reason
- life on the line for whatever reason
Instead of making the process to resign longer, we act faster

**If its in my hand and possibility I will do it fast.**

Regards

Vicky

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 2:27 AM Massimiliano Cannata <
massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch> wrote:

> Dear Astrid,
> I think that this request of withdraw together with the public accuses it
> expresses cannot be simply resolved with a wiki page modification.
>
> This call the OSGeo code of conduct committee and the board in its highest
> function of guarantor of the community to address the accuses and take
> public position with an official communication.
>
> Whether the accuses are true or not I believe this situation is negatively
> impacting our community brand and trust.
>
> This fact cannot pass over silence anymore and therefore I publicly call
> the board to urgently express and take a position on this.
>
> Let's see if this mail worth a response...
>
> Regards
> Maxi
>
> Il giorno ven 7 dic 2018, 07:56 Astrid Emde (OSGeo) <astrid_emde at osgeo.org>
> ha scritto:
>
>> Hello Sara,
>>
>> thanls for your email and sorry, that it took a while to work on your
>> request.
>>
>> You are now listed as retired OSGeo Charter Member at
>>
>> https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/
>>
>> I also edited your User page in the wiki and deleted Charter member:
>>
>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Sarasafavi
>>
>> If you would like to change more content on your charter member page you
>> can do so.
>>
>> All the best Astrid
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>> Astrid Emde
>> OSGeo Board Member and OSGeo Secretary
>> Open Source Geospatial Foundation
>> https://www.osgeo.org/member/astrid-emde/
>> astrid_emde at osgeo.org
>>
>> Am 04.12.2018 16:54 schrieb Sara:
>> > Board elections have come & gone and so I'm revisiting this request:
>> > please change my Charter membership status to "retired".
>> >
>> > Astrid - I've been told you have the ability to modify any relevant
>> > "master lists". If this isn't true please feel free to forward this to
>> > the right person.
>> >
>> > Vicky - similarly, I understand you have the ability to edit the web
>> > content at www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/ [1]. If that's not
>> > correct either, please feel free to forward as needed.
>> >
>> > cc'd board at lists to help facilitate the request.
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> > From: SARA <sara at sarasafavi.com>
>> > Date: Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:00 PM
>> > Subject: How to retire membership status?
>> > To: OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >
>> > Hello community,
>> >
>> > Can someone point me at the relevant documentation re: retiring
>> > current membership status? Specifically, related to Charter
>> > membership.
>> >
>> > I understand the processes to nominate & add new charter members but
>> > not clear on how current charter members can retire.
>> >
>> > To put it another way: how to edit
>> > https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/ [2]?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Sara Safavi
>> >
>> > Links:
>> > ------
>> > [1] http://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/
>> > [2] https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> Board at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

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